Are you interested in angels, demons, spirits, ghosts, and monsters? Are you curious about their origins, tales, and influence upon history and on the present day? If so, sit back, relax, and welcome to Southern Demonology, the podcast that explores all of this and more.
Hello everyone. Welcome back to Southern Demonology. This is your host, JJ. Let me start off this episode with the riddle. I'm going to give you some descriptions, and I'd like you to guess which religion I'm talking about. And note that I'm talking religion, not denomination or division. Okay, here we go. One, the world was created in seven stages. Two, there is a Holy Spirit that is at once separate from yet also indistinguishable from God.
And three, God has an arch enemy who is known for saying I shall not aid your creatures, and I shall not give praise, but I shall destroy you and your creatures forever and ever. And I shall persuade all of your creatures to hate you and to love me. Do you have a guess? I've posed this question to a few, and the most common answer I've received is Christianity. And that makes sense for it sounds very similar, no? After all, Christianity has the Trinity of which the Holy Spirit is a member. So it is at once indistinguishable from yet separate from God. The world was created in seven days.
And that third description sounds something like the devil something that the devil would snarl at the face of God. However, let me throw in a few more details. This religion has the oldest holy writings known in the world. Fire plays a prominence in rituals, and the cycle of creation began with the heptad, a plant, a bull, and a man. Now it doesn't sound so familiar, does it? The answer, my friends, is Zoroastrianism. As written by John Henels and the textual sources for the study of religion, Zoroastrianism edition.
He says Zoroastrianism is the least well known of the world religions, end quote. And that's true in multiple regards. However, it is hugely important as it changed the flow of Judaism with its influence and directly shaped early Christian thought. So much so that many of the Bedrock beliefs are directly inspired by Zoroastrianism. Or as the Japanese would say, Tabun. Probably perhaps. And I say probably because there are many theories floating around. Yet the academic consensus is strongly in favor of it, as well as I. Not that my opinion means anything.
And we find remnants of Zoroastrianism even in the Hebrew Bible. Asmodeus is an example to that one. But before we get into all that, let's take a quick step back and get a brief overview of Zoroastrianism. But one quick side note. And that stands for before the common era. So, you know, the old standard is BC and AD, before Christ, blah blah blah. Well, that's great if you're talking to a Christian audience. However, if you're not, you're going to have kind of a big problem.
I mean, we want to use inclusive language to not automatically cause people to reject what we're talking about, correct? So academics came up with BCE before the Common Era, and that's the standard that I use in talking about anything going on here. So anyway, with that aside, this religion started with the Proto-Iranians around 19th century BCE. And yes, you heard me right. We're talking before the Bronze Age here. Now this group of people, largely nomadic and pastoral in nature, they eventually split into two. One would follow the tenets of Zoroastrianism while the other Hinduism.
And as you can guess, the two groups never got along afterwards. In fact, the gods of Hinduism are the divas or demons of Zoroastrianism, and vice versa. Quoting from Henels here, quote Toward the end of the second millennium BC, the Iranian tribes moved south off the steppes and gradually conquered and settled the land now called after them Iran. Eastern Iranians evidently carried Zoroastrianism with them, and eventually the Western Iranians, i.e. the Medis and the Persians, also adopted the faith.
It became the religion of the Persian Achimeneans, whose empire was the greatest in the ancient world. This religion followed largely along the roots of ancestor worship and some core beliefs until the advent of Zoroaster, otherwise known as Zarathustra. Now that name probably rings some bells if you've ever read Nietzsche with his work The Spreck Zarathustra. Zoroaster was cla is classified as a religious reformer in the sense that like the founders of other world religions, he accepted the belief system prevalent at the time but reshaped it with new teachings.
He stated that there is one primary god known as Ahura Mazda. Zoroastrianism is very fond of threes. With Ahura Mazda at the helm, you also have the Holy Spirit called Spinta Minu, which again is the same yet separate from Ahura Mazda. Then you have six helper spirits, think archangels or immortals called Amesha Spintas, that he created to resist him with creation itself. And in Zoroastrianism, creation is really interesting. As said before, it happened in seven stages. The first was a huge shell of stone that encompassed everything. The second was water in the lower half of the shell.
The third is the earth resting in a flat plane or like a dish on top of the water. Then comes the next three, otherwise known as the heptad. In the center of this earthen dish a uniquely created plant was brought forth. Then a bull, and then finally a man. These three together form the heptad and are the fourth, fifth, and sixth stages of creation. Finally, the seventh was fire, the sun. However, nothing moved. Creation was static. Though there was fire in the sky, it did not rotate, it did not move, nothing moved. Yet then the heptad was sacrificed.
Remember, the plant, the bull, and the man. And this act caused creation itself to leap into motion and to beget new plants, bulls, and men. And also, of course, the sun to start revolving around the earth. Now before I move on to the crux of the point, the dualism. Let's discuss a few other items. Zoroastrianism is known for its fire temples. As seen from the seventh stage of creation, fire is holy. Temples keep a fire going continuously. In fact, the same fire at some temples have been burning for centuries. However, it's not just fire that's considered holy. The earth is as well.
And as a result, one of the other things that Zoroastrianism is known for is not burying their dead. Instead, they are placed in a in secluded areas so that crows or natural processes can f feast upon the flesh and pick at the corpses clean. And that's because you do not want to mingle death into the earth. Um there's actually a really interesting article that came out recently all about a um a kid that was born into a broken Zoroastrian family. His mother was Zoroastrian, so his dad was not, and went back for a kind of um a pilgrimage um into I think it was India.
Um that's where so you find pockets of Zoroastrians in several different places. There are some enclaves in the US, uh, mainly in LA and Chicago, uh, but then you also the where most of them still kind of happen to be at the moment, is in India, in addition to some in Iran. But um regardless. But yeah, there would be uh there are actually these secluded spaces in which only only Zoroastrians can go into, and they are dedicated spots where bodies are laid forth and they're allowed to decompose.
Um before crows would actually come and feast upon them, but at least within this one spot in India, uh the they had that species of crows that was most likely to do that, um they had been wiped out by uh pesticide or insecticide, something along those lines, and so now they let natural processes happen. So and the another thing is you cannot convert to be a Zoroastrian, it's just not permitted. Um if you're not born into the faith, you cannot become one.
In fact, I mean alluding to that same article, um, in some strict communities, if a mother marries outside of the faith and has a child, then that child would not be accepted as a full member. Same is not true as if, you know, the the father is a Zoroastrian. And when I said that Zoroastrianism is not well understood, part of the reason for that is due to Alexander the Great, the man had a heart on for destroying as many Zoroastrian priests and burning as many of their books and annihilating their oral history as possible.
In fact, m many parts of the texts and rituals preserved to this day are not understood by the priesthood or academics just because so much knowledge was lost during that time. Now I could keep going on and on, and if there is interest in doing so, I'd be more than happy to do it. Um but I really want to get to the main point that's probably the most interesting for the people here. Um you know Zoroastrianism really the belief system really centers around two things the heptad and dualism. And oh did it have the most advanced dualism of any early religion. Shockingly so.
Now here are some passages that I want to share from one of the holy texts to the religion, um, the greater uh Bundahism. Note that in the passages that follow, Achromazda is being referred to as um a chromazda and the arch enemy, or think about it in terms of like Christianity, the devil, um, is called Ahriman. Okay. And this really goes through 30 verses, so it's gonna take a little bit of time, but I promise you it's worth it because these are some of the most interesting passages that I have read in years.
Um I had taken a course on Zoroastrianism back uh uh in grad school, but I forgotten a great deal. I mean, I uh again that was oh dear lord, that that was a couple of decades ago. I'm not gonna go into more specifics than that. Um but I have been doing a you know pretty good bit of research in order to put this uh particular episode together, and I I ran across this uh passage within Henel's book of textual sources for um uh Zoroastrianism, and I was blown away, and I had to share it.
In fact, I've had a few conversations um about this with some folks in the uh in our Discord group, and uh it's led to some really interesting ideas. So sit back, here we go, I think you're gonna be interested. It is thus revealed in the good religion that Uchmazd was on high in omniscience and goodness. For boundless time he was ever in the light. That light is the space and place of Uhmaz. Some call it the endless light. Akhriman was based in slowness of knowledge and the lust to smite. The lust to smite was his sheath and darkness his place.
Some call it the endless darkness, and between them was emptiness. They both were limited and limitless for that which is on high, which is ProFootball is back, and so are the predictions.
Called endless light, and that which is abased, which is endless darkness. Those were limitless. But at the border both were limited, and that between them was emptiness. There was no connection between the two. Then both spirits were in themselves limited. On account of the omniscience of Uhrmaz, all things were within the knowledge of Uhmaz, the limited and the limitless, for he knew the measure of what is within the two spirits. Then the kingship of the creation of Uchmazd and the future body for ever and ever, that is limitless.
The creation of Ahraman at the time when the future body will be shall be destroyed. That truly is limited. Uhmazed by his omniscience knew that the evil spirit existed, what he plotted in his enviousness to do, how he would commingle what is beginning, what the end, what and how many of the tools with which he would make an end, and he created in the spirit state the creatures he would need as those tools. For three thousand years creation remained in a spirit or invisible state. The evil spirit, on account of his slowness of knowledge, was not aware of the existence of Uhmaz.
Then he arose from the deep and came to the boundary and beheld the light. When he saw the intangible light of Uhrmaz, he rushed forward. Because of his lust to smite and his envious nature he attacked to destroy it. Then he saw valor and supremacy greater than his own. He crawled back to darkness and shaped many devs, the destructive creation, and then he rose for battle. When Uhmaz saw the creatures of the evil spirit, they appeared to him frightful and putrid and evil, and he desired them not.
When the evil spirit saw the creatures of Uchmaz, they appeared to him most profound and fully informed, and he desired the creatures and creation of Uhmaz. Then Ukhmaz, in spite of his knowledge of creation and the end of the affair, approached the evil spirit and profered peace, and said, Evil spirit, aid my creatures and give praise, so that in recompense for you that you may be immortal.
The evil spirit snarled, I shall not aid your creatures and I shall not give praise, but I shall destroy you and your creatures for ever and ever, and I shall persuade all of your creatures to hate you and to love me. And Uhmaz said, You are not all powerful, evil spirit, so you cannot destroy me, and you cannot so influence my creatures that they will not return to being mine.
Then Uhmaz and his omniscience knew, If I do not set a time for that battle of his, then he will be able eternally to make strife and a state of mixture for my creatures, and in the mixture he will be able to lead my creatures astray and make them his own. Then Okama said to the evil spirit, set a time, so that according to this bond we may postpone battle for nine thousand years, for he knew that through this setting of a time he would destroy the evil spirit. Then the evil spirit, not being able to foresee the end, agreed to that pact.
This too Alhaz knew in his omniscience, and within these nine thousand years three thousand years will be will go according to the will of Uhrmaz. Three thousand years in the mixture will go according to the will of both Uhrmaz and Ahriman, and at the last battle it will be possible to make Akhriman powerless and to ward off the assault from his creatures.
Then Uhmaz recited aloud the Anuvar prayer, and he showed to the evil spirit his own final victory and the powerlessness of the evil spirit, and the destruction of the devs, and also the resurrection and of the future body, and the freedom of creation from the assault forever and ever. And when the evil spirit saw his own powerlessness together with the destruction of the devs, he fell prostate and unconscious. He fell back again into hell, even as he says in the scriptures that when he had spoken one third, the evil one, the evil spirit crouched in fear.
When he had spoken two thirds, the evil spirit sank upon his knees, and when he had spoken it all, the evil spirit became powerless to do evil to the creatures of Alchemaz. For three thousand years he lay prostrate. So there's so much here that's absolutely fascinating. But let's get some of the major points. At least to my knowledge, this is one of the few cosmological descriptions of a mapping. You have the realm of endless light and the realm of endless darkness, and each has its champion. And the talk of limited versus limitless is worth its own topic one day.
But you uh rather than these vague concepts of oh there's you know, there's heaven and then there's hell, you know, where might they be situated? This gives you a full view of the cosmological implications of dualism that's being outlined. But moving on from that, you have a reasoning as to why evil does as it does, several actually. In our Southern Demonology Discord group, one person asked about angelic free will, particularly as it relates to the watchers, that cursed group of angels tasked with watching over the generations of humanity.
And the question was posed, why would they do such a thing if they were to get caught? And extending that line of logic further, why would the devil do such a thing as betray God if it would lead to banishment from hell? And this passage attempts to answer such a fundamental question. Not only is the arch enemy of God so steeped in lust and hatred that it can do nothing but act in its nature, it's also lacking in omniscience. Because it prioritizes its hate and wantonness, it is blinded to the consequences. So only Uchmaz is elevated to see not just further but everything.
And that principle is carried onwards into other religions. These spirits, though having magnified powers, are also bound with exponentially powered flaws. They must act as they do. In short, they at once have the free will to do only what their nature is. They are limited in other words. However, this passage also acknowledges the power of Ahraman. Unless a time limit is set for their confrontation, then Urmaz knows that the true damage can be wrought to his plans. And that is a first as well. For at least three thousand years, the mixture, i.e.
creation, will be under the influence of both Uhrmazd and Ahriman. And this alone opens up a slew of questions. Now you will find some other works which claims that you know creation is under the dominion of Ahriman. And you find that same parallel in Christianity, where the devil rules this world. And you even find it in Judaism, where the um the watchers and the spirits of the bastards and all of these other um creatures and entities, they are set forth in this world and they wreak havoc everywhere.
Um but we can also extrapolate out and see that Zoroastrianism is left with a few theological conundrums. If the two realms are limitless, how could they have a boundary? But even more importantly, one pointed out time and again in the ancient world, at the end of days ahura Mazda will be left diminished. How? Well, it's written that at the end of the final battle Ahriman and his devs will be sealed away in hell for eternity, but to do so, a portion of the light of Ahura Mazda will be sacrificed to seal it.
So at the very end, Ahura Mazda does not have quite the umph that he did at the beginning. And that has thrown quite uh a few topics of essays uh going on uh to try to resolve that particular dilemma. And you know, some of us spouse that well, you know, if you have infinity, taken away from infinity does not make it less than infinity, etc. So there are you know some valid concepts that could be done to defend against this, but still this entire well-developed system of duality is is one of the hallmarks of Zoroastrianism, along with the Heptad.
But the Heptad did not, you know, sp uh spread out and influence uh other religions. However, this dualism did. You know, uh it's commonly thought that during the first exile, I mean the exile of uh after um the first temple was destroyed, that's when Judaism came into contact with Zoroastrianism.
And I had always simply thought that you know the change between the world and all of its entities, even the destructive ones, follow God's rule explicitly to await there must be bad angelic actors, and that's why we have so many problems, could be explained away with the destruction of the first temple and then of course the destruction of the second one.
And that may be true, however, if you mix in a truly advanced dualism to a religion that had zero dualism, well I think it might be pretty susceptible to the more advanced state of dualism that would explain it could actually be the catalyst that could cause that shift from everything is God's will to oh wait, no, there are some horrible actors that are arrayed against us, and then of course that also seeped further into early Christianity, etc. So Zoroastrianism, you may not have heard about it, however, it has had extremely far reaching effects.
And if you're interested, we can do some follow-ups to this topic. Um, I I would love to get the chance to do more research because I I really am fascinated by it. Um, but anyway, I do want to wrap up this topic. We're almost at time, uh, but I want to thank you all for listening. I hope you're staying safe out there. If you have ideas for topics, um things that you have questions about, feel free to reach out uh to me on our Facebook page, which is facebook.com slash southerndemonology. Reach out to me on our uh through a contact message on our website, which is southerndemonology.
com, or feel free to join our Discord. Uh the the information is on both of Facebook and on the website, and you'll be able to uh to join and it's completely free, you know, it's just open to the public. So uh come in, introduce yourself, and uh feel at home because we have a very open, encouraging um community, and I I highly encourage that.
In fact, if there's you know ever any Discord uh literally, then that would be nipped in the butt because it is a open, friendly place for people to get to know each other, uh, to get to chat, to ask questions, and there are people from all walks of life there, um, and you know, from a variety of religious backgrounds or zero religious backgrounds, and it's been a great marketplace of ideas, and uh I truly cherish everyone that has been on there. So thank you very much. And I cherish you listeners. Uh, thank you for sticking around with uh you know with my ramblings.
I'm glad I haven't driven you away. Uh, but most importantly, I hope you're staying safe during these dangerous times and uh look forward to the next episode, which will hopefully be coming up next week. So thanks again, and I'll see you next time.