Are you interested in angels, demons, spirits, ghosts, and monsters? Are you curious about their origins, tales, and influence upon history and on the present day? If so, sit back, relax, and welcome to Southern Demonology, the podcast that explores all of this and more. Hello.
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And as always, I'm your host, JJ. I know, don't be shocked. Two episodes, one after another, in two weeks. I know it's kind of a miracle for me, um, especially given my much slower normal publishing pace. But I did try to promise some extra content for Halloween, and for the first time since I have started this podcast, I have been able to deliver on that, much to my shock. Um, so last week we did an episode on you day, which took a lot of research, but this week I have something really special. Um, I have an interview with Toki, who runs the uh Japan Explained podcast.
Not only is she just a lovely individual, but she has so much knowledge from her seven and a half years of serving as a tour guide in Japan that I could not resist bringing her on for an interview slot. And she provides so much amazing information, and my main focus was as we had covered Yudei or Japanese ghosts in the previous episode, I had promised to do a follow-up on Yokai, which are commonly translated in English as spectres or monsters, but there's such an amazing variety of them that you really can't classify them into one single little bucket.
Uh they cover an entire gambit, and more just than they're just their diversity between physical entities and spectral entities. You also have ancient and modern yokai, uh, the ones that's been around for centuries, and then those who have been recently introduced, such as uh Kuche Sakeona, who is the slit mouth woman.
If you have a a good propensity for handling gore or very strange-looking things, then I recommend you googling Slit Mouth Woman, because if you have not seen any of the admittedly pretty horrible movies that are centered around her, uh, the visuals though are absolutely amazing. Uh, you'll see some really interesting stuff. However, if you have a very weak stomach or you don't want to see anything that could give you some nightmares, I would recommend kind of staying away from that one.
Uh, but regardless, rather than me just drone on for another 30 minutes, I wanted to bring on someone who was intimately familiar not only with the culture, but also with the concepts. And in addition to just talking about Yokai and some of her personal experiences, she shares some really interesting ghost stories. Uh, two of them, in fact. So I please hope that you give it a good listen, uh, that you visit her site, and there are numerous plugs throughout. And in fact, I will be adding a uh a new section to the southerndemonology.com website for friends of the show.
Um hers will be first and foremost, but um I do have one more special little announcement. Um I have already started writing the next episode, which will premiere on um Halloween uh 1031. But I am also being featured as a guest on the Your Worst Friend podcast, uh, where we got to do um, you know, the two hosts there, uh they're a comedy duo, really funny guys, and uh they brought me on to talk about demonology for a little bit. So you'll get to hear some amusing antidotes and great comedy uh intermixed with all of that. So um, yeah, this week is just turning out to be a huge bonanza for me.
Um you know, it probably won't happen again for a while. I will try my best so that it continues, but I can't really make any promises with my current schedule. However, you know, thank you, Toki, for coming on. It was such a pleasure to get to meet you and to explore just a tiny fraction of the knowledge that you have accumulated over the years. And uh yeah, I we've already have talked about uh you're here, but we've already talked about maybe doing a second uh round where I get to uh ask her a lot more questions so that everyone uh can be able to benefit from her amazing knowledge.
So anyway, sit back, relax, listen. Uh I've got about 25 minutes uh for our joint interview, and uh yeah, I really hope you enjoy. And again, Toki, you are amazing. Thank you so much for agreeing to do this. Alrighty. So uh we I am here with a very special guest today, and I'm gonna let you do the uh introduction. So if you can just give me who you are, the name of your podcast, what's it about, and how long you've been doing it.
Okay, sure. Uh hi everyone, I'm Toki, and uh I'm a host of Japan Explained podcast. Uh Japan Explained uh was born because before uh before I started it, I was a tour guide in Japan. I used to live there for seven and a half years, and half of that time I worked as a tour guide in Kyoto. Then that's amazing. Yeah, it was actually Chris was a really cool job. I really loved it, and uh it's very sad that I cannot do it anymore now.
But uh then obviously everybody knows Corona happened and Japan closed its borders, they are still closed now, and I just decided I have to share my knowledge in some other way. So I started Japan Explained.
That is fantastic. Who did you do uh tour guides for?
Uh I did tour guiding all around Japan. I did mainly Kyoto and Kansai areas, so Kyoto, Osaka, Himeji. Actually, uh you shared one story from Himejastle on your podcast when you were talking just in one of the previous episodes about Japanese ghosts. Yep.
The one of the three famous ghosts of Japan, Okiku, she is from Himaiji, and they still have the well.
Oh, that's amazing. Um, so what started your interest in Japan? Like, why did you actually move over there and what what sparked that?
Uh my education was not related to Japan whatsoever. I graduated from law school, and then I just didn't want to pursue this career. So I started thinking what I would like to do, and I had two interests. I had interest in history, and uh by that time when I graduated university, I got rather big interest in Japanese literature and uh Japanese dramas. So I was thinking, what should I do? And I had two countries to pick from.
I wanted to go to England and I wanted to go to Japan, but just uh it happened that going to Japan appeared to be way easier, so I went there and I never regretted my choice.
I can't say that blame you. Like when you were talking about history uh dramas, are you talking uh like no theater or kabuki or uh more uh literary words?
Uh more uh I loved Japanese literature in general, but when I'm talking about dramas, it's more the drama.
Oh, okay, gotcha. Like the the modern TV shows and whatnot.
The modern TV shows, yes. When I was in in a university, I was bored a lot and I didn't like I didn't know, so I was just watching it's one of them.
I um I feel you actually during grad school, when I would come back from classes, I would watch a lot of anime, and I just kind of fell in love with it. So, yeah, but I mean honestly, after watching uh what Denshow Toko, it kind of changed my life, so I completely understand what you mean. Um, so in addition to just like general information about uh Japan, what other particular topics have you covered in your podcast?
Uh because I was working as a tour guide, I just accumulated a huge amount of misconceptions people have about Japan. And when I started the show, it was an initial idea that every time I will take one of these misconceptions and tell what's wrong about it and what's actually happening in Japan in regard to this particular thing. So my first episode was about geisha, obviously, because it's the most misunderstood part of Japan, I guess. And then I a little bit drifted from this path, and now I just pick one topic that interests me at a time.
It can be food, it can be some cultural event, it can be a personality, and I just do a very deep dive on that.
Oh, that's phenomenal. Uh, what is like out of all the topics that you've covered so far in terms of general misconceptions? Uh, which one's your favorite?
The misconceptions, I guess it would stay geisha, and plus the episode, uh, it's actually the two-part episode I made. Uh, we uh talk about arriving arrival of black ships to Japan when the Commander Perry arrived in 1853 and so-called opened Japan. I really like this period of time. The it's called Bakumatsu in Japan. It's the switch between the traditional Edo period Japan of uh samurai and uh shoguns to the modern Japan that we all know now.
So it's very interesting, it's very bright period of time, and uh what started it, at least how we know it, was the arrival of the American squadron to the shores of a small city of Furaga, right near Tokyo.
Yeah, absolutely. Is it the uh just a question? I have been told that uh Doria is such a famous dish in Japan now, and really only kind of found in Japan, uh, just because one of the chefs uh from one of those ships actually taught the recipe. It's do you know if that's true or not?
I don't know. I should make an episode about Doria, I guess.
Yeah, I had never heard of it, and first time I ever had it in a family restaurant, uh, I was really curious and had it and loved it. And yeah, one of my friends just happened to mention this in an offhand manner, so I was just curious. But um, going back just for a second, uh, what uh is there a particular website um that people can find your podcast at? I want to make sure I get that out before I completely forget about it.
Sure, I have a website, it's called chipanexplained.com, but uh basically you can find it anywhere you get your podcast.
Gotcha. That is fantastic. And how long have you been doing it?
I've been doing it for one and a half year now.
Gotcha.
I go pretty slow pace, so I just released my episode number 14. If I 15, 15. Just released the 15th episode, but uh deep dives take time.
Yeah, trust me, I completely understand. I've been I think I started this back in 2017, and I'm only on episode 33 or 34. So I go very slow as well. Um, okay, I and I do have to ask, do you have a favorite drama?
Let me think about this one.
I do we can come back to it. It's no pressure at all. I was just really curious.
I really like historical shows. I'm pretty sure you know Japan has every year this massive 50-something episode Tai Gadorama. Oh, yes, I love this. I actually translated one into Russian.
Really? Yes, oh my gosh, how many languages do you know?
Oh well, Russian is my native language, then I speak English and Japanese, and currently I'm learning Dutch, but with not much success.
I couldn't even begin to imagine all of my specialties are ancient languages, and there's nobody left to speak them, so there's really no pressure anymore.
Well, I knew uh one tour guide in Japan who could speak uh the old Russian oh Slavonic. Yes, he he was speaking all this old Slavic language, and it's you don't I don't understand much of it because the Russian language really changed since then, but uh it was still really interesting, and he could not only read and write and understand it, he could actually speak in it normally.
It was really, really cool. Wow, I I can I can read some O Church Slavonic, but I certainly can't speak any whatsoever.
I would I don't think I can even read it.
Uh it's been a while for me, but yeah, it was uh it was interesting. We got to study some inscriptions back in school, and I really did like it. Um, okay, so I have to ask, so most of my you know, most of my podcast revolves around angelology, demonology, and second temple Judaism. Uh, but we do branch out a lot into modern paranormal activities. Um, have you ever had a paranormal experience, whether it's in Japan or in your native country or where you currently are?
I did not, but I did do have a lot of people, I know a lot of people who had.
Do you have one that you could share? Uh if not, it's no problem at all.
I don't know details, obviously, because people don't really like to talk about their paranormal experiences in Japan, but uh I can give you a few short ones. Uh I would love that.
The first one was uh just a taxi driver whom I uh spoke to, and uh the taxi driver uh it was in Kyoto, we were riding somewhere from the north. It was at night, so obviously perfect time for spooky stories. And the taxi driver said that it was his one of his first times to actually get to the north of the city because he moved to Kyoto not that long ago, and he was just learning it, learning the streets and everything. And we started talking, so he told me why he moved to Kyoto.
Apparently he was having for years and years exactly the same dream when he is a samurai and he's walking down the street, and then he feels pain. He understands that he was hit by the sword from from behind. He turns and he sees some figure, but he cannot understand who it is.
Oh my gosh.
And because of that, he started to check his family history or something like going to mediums, and he understood that uh in one of his previous lives he was a samurai who was indeed killed in by one of his one by somebody he knew and it happened in Kyoto. So he came to Kyoto to find uh what actually happened to his previous self.
Oh, that is amazing.
I never even would have thought about that. And he said that his dreams are getting more vivid, so he kind of starts to see the the face a little bit better, and he hopes at some point he will be able to solve this mystery.
Oh my gosh, that is amazing. I have never heard something even remotely akin to that before.
It's it's actually really interesting because I I I like yokai, but whatever more than yokai, when it comes to ghosts to something like more human-like, I I really I'm really scared of it. So happily I never encourage it something. But go ahead.
You know, Japan being the most the country that is inhabited by most ghosts and paranormal creatures in the world, like it's official. I I ended up not indirectly learning and meeting so many of these creatures. Uh actually, like when it happens to Japanese people, it's kind of one thing because you don't ask in Japan, do you believe in ghosts? You ask do you see them. But it actually even happens to foreigners.
Like uh, I had one customer who during the the tour, uh, she was talking to one of her dead relatives, and uh only after when only when she woke up the next morning, she understood that she was talking, she was having like a full night conversation in her dream with one of her dead relatives, and it never happened to her before. And it was she said it was so real that like she could touch the person and like talk, and it was like they were alive and nothing happened.
Wow, yeah, dreams uh have such an amazing kind of power. Uh I you know that even with all of my studies before I ever stepped foot in Japan, I never understood that. Um that is fascinating.
Yeah, dreams are really, really, really weird. I don't understand them, but uh actually what I find dreams are still I find that they're still safe territory, like a safer one because you still can wake up.
True.
What happened to my friend in Japan? This you couldn't wake up from. Uh she's from Yamanashi Prefecture, so very close to Fuji, Mount Fuji, and to Awakigahara forest.
Oh my gosh, okay.
And uh once they went on a camping trip. Trip with a family, and uh when they were driving, they had cars going the opposite direction, constantly honking at them. They couldn't understand why the the car is small, they were driving in their own lane and everything, and then one of the drivers screamed at them. And you you know how rare it is for Japanese people to scream at someone, they oh yeah, it never happens, it never happens.
And I mean, in fact, my entire time in Japan, I don't think I ever heard someone honk a horn.
It's rarely happens, it happens more in Kansai, but uh around Tokyo, like in this area, it just doesn't happen. The honking doesn't exist, and this one person who was screaming at them, he was like, What are you doing? You crazy people, you have a person on the roof.
Oh my gosh.
So they have to stop the car and they look there is nobody on the roof. So all these people honking at them, apparently they were all honking for the same reason.
Oh my god. That I just got chills down my spine. That is crazy. Oh okay, that that is something that is not easily explained, especially to have such intense reactions from people driving the opposite way from you. Wow. Have you ever been to uh the Jukin to Okigahara?
Well, uh I was told this this story shortly before we went um close to Okigahara. I didn't go to the forest itself, but uh you know, sightseeing around Fuji, you at some point pass near it, right?
Awesome. So um uh um what really kind of drew you into into Yokai, especially kind of doing a deep dive for an episode.
I as a person who is really uh scared of everything paranormal, I I just want to know the enemy. Let's put it this way.
That makes total sense.
Like I'm at the same time, I'm super scared of bugs, so I know about them.
Um so if someone has never even heard of the word yokai before, uh what what kind of your what's your standard definition for that?
I think yokai is such a broad term that it does not have a definition, like Steve definition for me. In English, they often call it monsters or super paranormal beings, but yokai in the end, it can be something, it can be an object, it can be an event, it can be something completely amorphous. And also by calling yokai monsters in English, I think uh by speaking about monsters, we imagine that it's something scary and something big. And learning about yoke, what's made me feel comfortable around them is that yokai are not always bad.
True, very true.
So, in the end, word monster doesn't really work, and uh that makes me completely clueless about how I should call them, except for yokai.
Excellent point. Uh, do you I know that some people have made a distinction between ancient and modern yokai, say like Tengu or Kuchisaka on a the slit mouth woman. Um, do you maintain such a distinction or do you kind of just still group them all as one as one thing?
I think they're still the same. Okay, it's more because in Japan, monsters like all yokai, they are still here in the end. Again, thinking about monsters, we think about ancient creatures, we don't think about nowadays monsters, like except maybe Bigfoot, but it's still pretty old thing. True, and because yokai they can just be born every new uh every now and then, like Kuchisaki Onna is from 1970s, if I'm not mistaken. But you have more recent yokai, you have yoke born in 2000s. Uh people can create yokai.
Absolutely, yeah. I mean, so I know that certain manga authors have created like you know 31 just in and of themselves, and that's just one for for one particular series.
So, yeah, and it's been happening actually, not even nowadays. Like now you have Pokemon, they are also kind of yoke, a lot of them are based on old yoke. At the same time, you have Bizuki Shigeru, who for his manga, he is very famous in Japan. Uh, he uses old yoke, but he creates new ones. But he is not the first one to do that. People in a period, like in the 17th century, people were doing the same, they were creating yoke.
Absolutely, yeah. I mean, just gosh, creating different kirans based upon you know various tales or you know, actually mismatching, you know, current day mysteries with uh you know various other uh salacious stories going on at the time. I mean, yeah, that's how a lot of UDA stories got created, so that makes total sense. Um, do you have a favorite yokai?
I have. I have a favorite yokai, and it's very pandemic time themed one. My favorite yokai is korori.
Have you heard about it? No, I haven't.
Uh Kurori is a Japanese name for Kolera. Because in Japanese, Kulera, when it came to Japan, it came pretty late, so it was because Japan was living pretty isolated for most of its history, and they first time encountered cholera in uh 19th century only.
Oh, um, cholera?
Cholera, yes. Okay, okay, sorry, sorry. Go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, they only counted it in the 19th century, and big thing about it is people died very fast.
They were talking about the people die Kororito very fast. And that's how became the name of Kalera, Korori. Then obviously, because it was a known disease, this that's what a lot of yokai were born to uh for to help people to fight with their fears to show them that this is something responsible for the scary stuff, and so to represent something responsible for this huge epidemic, they invented kururi. And uh it was uh very nice chimera. Japanese people I think really like chimera's that they had Nue before, they have Kirin and Baku and uh all these weird creatures.
So it looks partly like tiger, partly like wolf, partly like tanuki, and it was just such a big hit, and I also it also why I like Korori, I think, is it's shows the relationship of Japanese people with the yokai very well because you have if you travel around Japan, you will see that temples, for example, they have the tiles shaped as demon heads called onigawara. If you stroll around uh Kyoto historical quarters or even some small cities, you will see the tiny figures of Shoki. It's a deity who fights demons.
And in the end, it's a notion that if you have your own demon, it kind of protects you from uh as demons coming to you. So they started drawing Korori and spreading the notes about it, and you can just paste the painting of Korori on your house and hope it won't come to you.
Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
So it means it can harm you, but it can protect you.
Yeah, that's the I forget the exact name now that we're talking, but man, I know that there's a friendly house spirit that uh you know a lot of people hope to have in their house, which is supposed to bring good fortune and luck.
Zashi Kiwarashi?
Yes, thank you, thank you. I have to say, my favorite yokai of all time, though, has to be um Kamikasu Bake. Uh the umbrella, one-legged umbrella with the one. Yes, it's so cute. Oh, it's beautiful.
And when it's when it runs together with Bakazori, it's it's it's great.
Yeah, oh my gosh, yeah, when it teams up with the paper lanterns and all the other uh what's the term?
Um gami.
Yes, thank you, thank you.
Yes, the household objects, that's super cute.
Yeah, it's it's amazing this idea that uh you know, the older an object is, the more likely it is to be infused with life energy and can actually become animated. Um there's an entire anime about it, which is actually pretty decent, but yeah, it's it's phenomenal. I love it.
And it's also actually Tsukumogame, I think we need to remember about them more in the 21st century because they teach you how to treat your items properly. Instead of overconsuming, throwing stuff and buying everything new, you just should care about your items, otherwise, when they become old, they will remember that you threw them away and they will come fight you.
Absolutely, which is a lesson we all should be able to learn, especially here in the US, which um, yeah, less said about that, it's probably the better. But well, this has been absolutely wonderful and fascinating. I really hope that we can uh have you on again because uh this I have learned a great deal, and it's just been absolutely wonderful getting to meet you.
Thank you. I I'd be happy to come back. There's so many things to talk about when it comes to monsters in Japan. There are ghosts, yokai, there are vengeful spirits. Yeah, and also been moved because of them.
You've got that right. No, honestly, I would excuse me, I would love just to be able to pick your brain about your experiences living there and how you found it and um how you got acclimated to it. So, yeah, please come on again and uh we'll have a a longer discussion about anything and everything that you want to talk about.
Absolutely fantastic.
So before we go, can you just give a plug one more time for where uh where people can find your uh content at?
Sure. Uh you can find my podcast called Japan Explained anywhere you listen to your podcasts, or all the links are organized at japanexplained.com.
Excellent. Thank you so much again, Toki. It was fantastic getting to talk to you.
Thank you. I love talking to you. It was so much fun.
I thank you for listening to Southern Demonology. Find us online at Southern Demonology.com where you can find all of our social and podcasting links. Also, if you have a moment, please feel free to rate this podcast and leave any encouraging feedbacks that you may have. As always, I am JJ and it has been a pleasure getting to talk to you today.