Are you interested in angels, demons, spirits, ghosts, and monsters? Are you curious about their origins, tales, and influence upon history and on the present day? If so, sit back, relax, and welcome to Southern Demonology, the podcast that explores all of this and more.
Hello all, and welcome to the final episode of season three of the Southern Demonology Podcast. As always, I'm your host, JJ. Well, I can't believe we finally arrived at the end of the road for this particular season. It's been a chaotic time with family health, work overload, and a few other complications thrown into the mix. But what matters is that we've gotten here and not only do I want to thank you for bearing with me through the less than frequent schedule, but let me thank you for simply listening and sticking with me.
As a podcaster, I have zero idea who is listening beyond looking at metrics. And let me say, nor should I, as your privacy should be absolute. And even though I do have a Discord server and do receive emails, oftentimes this feels more like an exercise of simply throwing my voice into the void and praying that I am not talking to myself. And I am always humbled and tickled to death that someone out there listens. And for that, you will always have my appreciation. But what a ride this season has been.
We've covered everything from horror anime and my time in Japan, First Enoch and the Dead Sea Scrolls, and of course some pretty universally bad horror movies. But today we have two things on the docket to round things out. The final piece of my interview with the Exorcist, Father Birdsong, and his son Deacon Josh, and then immediately afterwards I want to talk about perhaps the best movie I have ever seen that deals with demonic possession. I'm leaving it to the end, as it does come up as a topic of discussion in the interview, and I don't want to overshadow that talk.
Plus, it's not every day that an academic scholar gets to help collaborate on a specific demonic influence. But before we cut over, two quick reminders. First, Southern Demonology will be taking a small break until October 2nd, when not only will season 4 commence, but so will Southern Demonology Bites, the October specific run of many episodes that cover horror movies. Second, I will be the guest on Vestiges After Dark on Tuesday, October 29th. I'll have a link to that in the show notes if you want to tune in on YouTube.
So sit back, relax, and enjoy the second part of my conversation with the bird songs. And stay tuned for afterwards as we delve into a movie that I cannot recommend enough.
Yeah. We are uh dealing with a case right now, and I will I will name the woman Paula. And Paula, I'm just gonna go ahead and say it's one of the hardest cases that I've ever dealt with in 31 years of ministry. Oh, that is quite a statement. What what makes it so well I'll I'll just go ahead and say I actually wrote down several points, but I got them all mixed up, but let me just go ahead and start with this one. Sure. Well, she got involved with a I'm just gonna call it a Christian cult. How about that?
And uh she she got involved with a quote unquote deliverance ministry, and you know, sometimes we walk into things we have no business walking into. Oh my god.
Okay, can can I stop you right there just for a second? Yes, sir. There was a minister where I grew up at, and my uncle and aunt got involved with this man. I won't name him, but I want to very badly. Whenever this man would come close to any of us, I got the worst chills sent straight up and down my spine. I abhorred this man. And we uh my mom felt the same, my aunt felt the same.
We actually forbid him from ever coming near our properties ever again because of just we saw the changes that this man induced into my aunt and uncle, who are extremely sensible individuals, and yet for some reason he had the power, and it it was awful, it was absolutely awful. So I completely understand exactly what you're talking about, at least from that degree.
Exactly. And so she you know, w one of the biggest problems that we have when it comes to the quote unquote charismatic world, especially in the 80s, uh, we had a demon for everything. I mean, seriously. If if if you ran out of gas, it's your fault, but it was a demon's fault. Right. You know, you know what I'm talking about? I do indeed. And so so she got involved in some things like that. I tell everyone that's that's my age, just because you read the book Pigs in a parlor back in the eighties doesn't make you a deliverance worker. Right.
But anyway, she she got involved in things like that, and and the well that's that's mistake number one. If you're not trained properly, leave it alone for crying out loud. But anyway, this this really started affecting her in a major, major, major way. When it came to my attention, she was she was so physically sick that you know she could she could barely stand. You know, I interviewed her and talked with her and and then we went on. This is one of those cases JJ that one and done is not over. Actually, I've had three sessions with her and uh trying to encourage her to to move forward.
And finally, finally this past week, she contacted me and you gotta you gotta understand this woman doesn't know the names of anything. But she mentioned the name Abaddon.
And that's definitely one of the worst that you could say.
Uh exactly, and that it that explains the depression and the sickness and the dread and everything. But also, also the name Lilith came forth and then she called it Balak, but I I may have misunderstood her, but I believe she's referred referring to Valak. B-A-L-A-K. And uh Josh, you want to talk about Valk?
Yeah, uh well I'm sure JJ already knows Valak is known for giving people uh natural knowledge and and usually is evolved with magic and magicians.
Yep. So Valak Vallak, I've heard it through a few different venues, and that makes sense because in Semitic languages B's and V's are really only designated through um uh a Dagesh point.
Exactly, exactly. So but but after the third session, it became it became very apparent to me. And it and it and it was quite shocking because I mean we we know that this can happen, but like I said, this is one of the hardest ones in 31, 32 years of ministry. I got a question.
So if Lilith was brought up, was there any connection to wind or anything similar to that?
She she always talked about storms and like a blowing on her face. That would make sense. That's Lilith right there. Okay, and well, that's see, that's one thing that I didn't understand, but I mean, I mean, I I've tried very hard to discern between certain demonic presences, but I I I never put it together that the blowing in the face was Lilith.
It can be. Like Lilith's most her her first appearance was in Akkadian mythology, where it was really three separate entities, and they were all three goddess of the wind. Okay. Then she was brought over into Jewish folklore as a night hag. And then she kind of rapidly evolved into this idea of Adam's first wife, because of the two different creation stories that you find in Genesis, and then she took on an entire life of her own. But yeah, she's always been a presence ever since Sumerian and Akkadian times.
So when she says to me, I feel like I'm being attacked by the four winds. That is definitely Lilith. Okay. Very interesting. Another thing that's really uh hard for me to understand, but it's it's it's it's just because of who I am. She is uh I hate to use the word, but she's had this for so long that she's codependent on these demons.
There's been some moments where she's even referred to them as her friends.
That is definitely very deep. I mean, it sounds almost like it's only one step removed from being perfectly possessed.
Exactly. And and and that is I get messages almost daily, you know, for help, so on and so forth. And and I've had to tell her, if you don't come, I can't help you. You have got to make a decision to come. And unfortunately, it's it's reached the point to where, you know, you the enemy can't take over our free will, but he can he can persuade it.
Exactly. They can either trick you into believing it doesn't exist, or they'll find uh a little crack in your armor and they were slither in like a bug.
Exactly. Kind of it kind of reminds me of the movie The Right, where uh oh what's his name? Anthony Hopkins tells the Michael Kovac priest, just because you don't believe in the devil doesn't mean he doesn't exist. Right. It's a battle to get her to understand what she's really facing. She sees it at a certain point, and then it's like a light switch goes off and then she sh then and then she withdraws back into herself. And but she she's adamant that I come to her home and I said, No, that's not gonna happen. We'll get you here. All you gotta do is pick up the phone and say, Come get me.
It's amazing to me that after a while, and like you said, it's it's like one step removed from perfect possession, how people can become codependent on these demonic presences. And but it all it all started when she got into this I'm just I'm just gonna call it a Christian cultic practice of deliverance with folks not knowing what they're doing. I mean, she she even she's even got to the point where she takes around uh a bag with stuffed animals or dolls and calls them her her twos for PTSD. Well, what she's dragging around is a bag full of idols.
And I'm saying you you gotta you gotta get rid of this mess.
I mean, just the the thought of that scares the ever living crap out of me.
I I know, right? I mean, like I said, I mean this one I gotta say, honestly, and I've seen some stuff, JJ. I I've seen people run around on all fours, foaming at the mouth, barking like dogs. I mean, you know, uh but however, this case is one of the hardest that I'm ever facing. And I have to be honest, I don't know how it's gonna turn out, but I mean, but we're here, we're we're gonna move forward, but it all really depends on the free will of the person.
Well, I will say whatever prayers I can offer up, because um that definitely sounds like an extremely hard nut to crack, unfortunately.
It it is, and you know, you know, today we had one of our classes on the uh nature of the demonic. Oh, by the way, just so you know, Josh and I have actually written a whole curriculum on that now, and we will be going to real school at the beginning of next year.
That is phenomenal news. I yeah, I I would love to be able to attend that. My goodness.
And it it will also, Josh is also going to be recording it, so it'll be available for you on video. Yeah. There you go.
Well, if y'all ever need a website to house it, let me know. More than happy to volunteer.
Hey, you are you are always welcome to come in person or Zoom or whatever we need to do. It is yeah, this one's this one's this one's been a hard one. Did she voluntarily reach out? She did. She voluntarily reached out. You know what? You know what? Let me put it to you this way. I told the class today that normally I would never, never recommend a movie to watch. But she reminds me of the movie Nefarious, 2023 version. That that's a movie to watch.
I'm not sure if I've seen that or not.
It is it is one of the most realistic cases of demonic possession that I've ever seen Hollywood put out. You know, there's always truth in Hollywood. One way or the other. We need to learn how to eat the fish and spit out the bones, as we say in the South. But that movie is it is spot on of demonic influence. Oh, I would, I would definitely recommend it. Amazon has it what for four dollars to rent, Josh? Yeah. It is, I've watched it twice, so that says something. But it is it is very it's very good and very, very accurate in my humble 30 years of experience in ministry.
And you know, there's only one thing I've learned in 30 years of ministry, JJ, is I don't know anything.
Yeah, I feel you in all of my decades of research, that's exactly how I feel now.
I mean, I mean, there's always something new and always something that you're walking into, and you're always, you know, forgive me what I'm about to say. Sometimes you wonder, what the hell am I getting myself into? Amen to that one. I I would recommend watching that. That's my plug for the movie. And like I said, I don't normally endorse things like that.
I will have to watch that, and I might even book in this entire interview with a review of that movie because now you've gotten me more than a little excited for it.
Uh, well, I'll go ahead and tell you that that movie, JJ, it is gonna grab you from the beginning and it's gonna keep you to the end.
I I hope it does because I'm telling you, I have watched a lot of horror movies, especially possession movies, in the past couple of months, and every single one of them has been nothing but a disappointment so far. So I definitely hope that this one is uh anywhere near as good as what you say it is, and I'm sure it is.
And said, Dad, you gotta watch this one.
Yeah. I'm sure you heard of C.S. Lewis, but do you remember uh the uh screw tape letters? Oh gosh, yes. This is what nefarious is, pretty much.
Oh really? Okay, then you have instantly gotten. My attention. I love the Scoot Tape Letters beyond all belief. Yes.
It's a prisoner who's on death row. It's a homeless man who's possessed. And the whole movie is him sitting down in front of an atheist psychiatrist and debating the demonic. And it's it's a very good movie.
You know, there was uh a TV show back in the 90s. It was a spinoff from the X-File, it was called Millennium.
Yeah.
It was a pretty horrible series, but there is one episode that always grabbed me, and it was it involved three demons who were discussing their philosophies on how to influence the human race. And that episode by itself was well worth the watch. It was I wish I could track it down again. It was phenomenal.
What what what was the name of the show? Millennial?
Yeah, it was Millennium. I'll see if I can dig that up because uh I would love to see it again myself. I haven't seen it since it aired originally.
I'll try to look that up tonight myself. I mean, it it is so realistic that what what does the demon say one time? You're nothing but a bag of skin that knows nothing.
Yeah.
I'm like, okay, here we go. It shows, in my opinion, the fall of Lucifer all the way up to the conquering of Man of Original Sin. It is a very dang good movie.
Okay, I actually found it. The title of that episode is Somehow Satan Got Behind Me. It's the 21st episode of the second season of the American Crime Thriller season television series Millennium. And this episode, a group of demons convene at a donut shop to share stories of tempting and damning humans. However, their stories all seem to include one mysterious figure who can see them for who they really are.
Awesome. Put that out on the uh Discord, and that way I can see it and look it up.
I would I'll I'll see if I can locate that, and I will definitely include a link.
That sounds awesome. I'll be looking for that one. That's interesting.
Our time is starting to come up on itself. Are there any other particular experiences that y'all have had that you would like to share?
You know, in our in our small cities, there's always something going on, right? Yep. And so uh some things were brought to light recently in our city and county that makes you wonder, so to speak, when it comes to sex trafficking and things like that. And so today we uh disperse the class and I had a a box of Benedictine metals and Josh can talk about Benedictine. I had them go around and just walk throughout the city square and things like that. You know, just as in the natural realm, there's signs and symbols, but in the spiritual realm there's signs and symbols too.
And I had them leave if they felt any type of heaviness or presence, I had them just leave a metal and just to say no, not today. Because one of the things about the supernatural and one of the things about the exorcist or even an or even intercessor is they're a watchman on the wall and they are placing themselves in a position to say, not today, JJ, not today, not on my watch, not with my family, not in my city. And that's one thing that I would love to leave with the people that you know we have a responsibility in the kingdom.
We can we can we can we can sit around and watch things go to hell in a handbasket, so to speak, or we can take a stand and say, not today, not to my children, not to my wife, not to my mother, not to my father, and come against the darkness of this world. Amen.
And to add to that, for those who are listening, I would also highly urge you not to invite the darkness. Exactly. Don't go on to Reddit and hear about some strange ritual, whether it's the Japanese game of hide and go seek by yourself, or the three kings ritual, or whatever it may be, and think, oh my gosh, that's a perfect thing to do. Let me go do that. Uh-uh.
Do not. I beg of you, it's a bad idea. Do not invite crap into your life, into your home, into your family's lives. It will only lead to ruination and regret.
Exactly. Exactly right.
That imagery of being the watchman and not today is extremely powerful. And I think that's a message that everyone should take very closely to heart.
Yes, sir. And oh, by the way, just let me go ahead and throw this little advertisement in. I wrote a book called Becoming a House of Prayer, and I would encourage everyone to look it up on Amazon. You can get it for three bucks on Kindle or buy the book for eight dollars. But it is a very powerful book written in southern redneck English that everybody can understand. But it's a good book to get a renewed hulk of your communication with God.
Yeah, I was actually just about to ask you where they can find you. I will definitely have a link to that, to the Amazon link, and I will be adding a new section to southerndemonology.com that will have a list of recommended books, and that one will definitely be there once I get that launched.
Yes, sir. And uh also when we get the uh we have the curriculum ready for what I was talking about earlier. Uh I just gotta put some final touches on it. But uh Josh will get a hold of you, and I will actually send you curriculum that we wrote, and that way you'll have it as well. And we will make this class also available just as soon as we get started. But you know, like I always say, all that's over my head, this will be in Josh's hands.
I'm a web architect. If there's ever anything I can do to further all of that, all you gotta do is say the word on a strictly volunteer basis.
Yes, sir.
Yeah, anything that can be done to disseminate this knowledge onto the world and protect people and to keep them safe, it can't be nothing but a good thing. So absolutely, absolutely. Well, it has been an absolute pleasure getting to talk to y'all again. Thank you both for coming on again. If you're just joining, this has been Father Michael Birdsong and his son Deacon Josh, and they have shared some of their amazing experiences. It won't be the last time that we hear from them. No, sir.
I'm sure they're going to be on once again at some point in time, but you're actually going to be the final two-part episode that's going to round up season three of Southern Demonology. I wanted to have something special, and I couldn't think of anything more special than having y'all two as guests. So thank you very much for your time.
My my pleasure, JJ. My pleasure.
Well, and you can also find them on future episodes of the Paranormal Rundown. So uh that is the own monthly podcast. Feel free to check that one out. And uh again, you will find links to Father Bird Sone's book, Becoming a House of Prayer, in the show notes. And if there's any other information that we can provide, um, all you have to do is ask. If you have any questions for the dynamic duo here, feel free to write in to southerndemonology.com. We have links for either contact us or the listener inbox. And feel free to uh to shoot any inquiries and we will get them over there.
Or if you would like to become a member of our Discord server, they are free and active members, and uh you can always contact them there. Again, have a wonderful night, gentlemen. Thank you very much for your time, and we will talk again soon.
Absolutely. Thank you, JJ.
And welcome back. Right after I finished that interview, I went straight to Amazon and rented Nefarious. After all, if two people I highly respect and who just happen to be exorcist themselves, you know, like you are, say such glowing things about a movie about possession, I couldn't resist. If you've listened to the podcast for a while, then I think you know how exacting and demanding I am when it comes to horror movies. Shudder has suffered the brunt of this over recent months and years, but there are so many offenders out there. It's unfair to just call them out singularly.
Yes, there are some great horror films out there. However, they rarely come along. However, I can honestly say that Nefarious is not only good, but it's amazing. And if anything, the bird songs understated how good Nefarious is. One of the chief complaints I have about demonic possession movies is that they usually have involved plots or subplots that have absolutely nothing to do with the possession itself. And I'm sorry, if you're dealing with a possession, then why in the world are you, as a filmmaker, focused on anything but that?
That's like having the most amazing archaeological find discovered. And then the crew talking about it is focusing only on what the archaeologist's fascination with birds happened to be, or on what the dig team had for breakfast that morning. I don't care. If your story cannot recognize, and more importantly, fully capture the terror and the ramifications of what a possession is, and therefore stand on that, then it has already failed. And dear lord, does Nefarious do that?
The vast majority of the movie is only an atheist psychiatrist speaking with a death row inmate who claims to be a demon. That's it. There's no special effects, no what I like to call obscene displays of power on the demon's behalf. So already this movie earns high marks just for that. Everything that is brought up takes a very distant backseat. With that said, the movie is not perfect. It does little to make the audience guess as to whether the inmate is truly possessed or not, even though it does half-heartedly attempt to uh uh to tread this path in the beginning.
The struggle and the battle of wits between the two of these conversationalists is all too soon given up by one of them. And uh I'm sorry, I won't go into detail. I'm not trying to spoil much here. And the ending is uh, well, it's entirely too pat for my liking. That's the best way of saying it. And there are some threads that, if explained or at least not abandoned, would have made for a much tighter movie overall. On a deeper level, the theology espoused by the movie is more Milton-esque than anything.
Man, if I had the time, I would love to break down where this movie gets things right and then kind of veers off into inherited material. Uh honestly, if I would love to find the time to break down where Milton himself veers away from source material. But that could be its own series of episodes or dissertations or whatever else you want to talk about. They are all pretty prickly intensed. So we'll leave it at that.
The one thing that did truly get my goat about this movie is that the demon says its name is Nefariamus, which is then quickly abandoned for Nefarious for the rest of the film, and that the name comes from an ancient Phoenician dialect. Nope. Phoenician is a Semitic language. Nefarious or Neferiamus is a Latin derived word. So yes, the research could have been much tighter. There could have been more subtle hints of power displayed. There could have been a tighter script. But if I'm going to be honest, all of these in the large scheme of things are nitpicks.
Nefarious is a stellar film, and it stages the only thing that matters right in the spotlight. But the most telling thing is that this movie has been living in my head nonstop since watching it. I want to go into greater detail. I want to tear apart every single thing about this movie and discuss it. And maybe at a future date I will, especially after the film has been out for a while and those who want to watch it have a chance to. I don't want to spoil things unnecessarily.
But the fact that it's still in my head that I'm still actively thinking about it, I mean, just the fact that it espouses a biblical worldview and does so pretty dang well to the point where I think it's actually a tad bit problematic. The fact that it keeps me thinking about the comfort that uh evil provides, that possession provides. And I think that's probably going to be the very first topic of season four. I my mind keeps splintering into a thousand different parallel directions, all because of this movie. And to me, that is the hallmark.
If you can show me a movie that keeps me fully invested, fully bought into your world as the movie is on, but then makes me think and keeps me thinking for entirely too long, you have done something extraordinarily special. And nefarious is definitely that. Thank you for listening to Southern Demonology. Find us online at Southern Demonology.com where you can find all of our social and podcasting links. Also, if you have a moment, please feel free to rate this podcast and leave any encouraging feedbacks that you may have.
As always, I am JJ and it has been a pleasure getting to talk to you today.