Are you interested in angels, demons, ghosts, spirits, and monsters? Are you curious about their origins, influence, and how to protect against the unknown? If so, then welcome to Southern Demonology, the podcast that explores all of this and more.
Hello all and welcome to season four, episode six of Southern Demonology. As always, I'm your host, JJ. Things have been rather busy on the podcasting front as of late since you've last heard episode five. I have recorded one episode of the Paranormal Rundown, which will be forthcoming, and have participated in a brand new podcasting venture, not my own, but rather of Father Birdsong, who has created his own podcast called Ending the Curse.
The first episode was published very recently, and I highly encourage y'all to go take a listen as he always brings his formidable knowledge, experience, pastoral instincts, and wit to analyze a proposed list of very important yet varied topics. And I am very thankful that he has unleashed his new creation upon the world. Further, I was on Nikolayan TV, where we discussed Japanese spirituality and you day for several hours, and that was an absolute blast. I will have a link to that show in the show notes.
I have also been on The Wandering Road, where I've made a few appearances up to date, and we also talked about some Japanese ghosts and spirits, in addition to a few other topics, and I will have all of those down below as well. But if you have not heard of The Wandering Road, Chris and Dean were gracious enough to bless the very first two episodes of this particular season. And in fact, Chris is joining me yet again for this episode here, which will be a two-parter because it is much longer than what I thought it was going to be.
And it delves into a topic that I have never touched upon, but have very much been wanting to do so. And so I hope you're going to find it really illuminating. But before I get into that, I do want to bring up a few notes. So having to worry about fair use is something that is rather new to me. And when I was bringing up this particular topic, and you have to forgive me for keeping everything a little vague, as I'm wanted to keep a little bit of mystery until you get into the heart of it. And I think you'll see why when I actually do.
In fact, it fits on one page of a Google document essentially. But after I did that, I went back and did some research and talked to a few people and realized that may not have been the best thing to do. However, I am very proud to say that my excellent friend Victor from Trailer Trash Terrors jumped to my rescue and lent me his digital voice actor of Bielza Bubba, for which I am infinitely grateful.
And I hate to make this just one long list of recommendations, but if you haven't heard Trailer Trash Terrors, it is an intellectual gym full of desperate topics, curiosity, and just pure audio engineering joy that I just cannot recommend enough. You know, I've said this a few times, and you have to forgive me for repeating myself, but I didn't get into Southern Demonology to make a lot of money. In fact, I made zero money besides like a tad portion, which has barely offset the expenses that I incur on every single month.
But what I have gotten out of this venture, which is well and truly a second job masquerading as an extremely expensive hobby, is a list of connections from meeting people to having a really nice community on our Discord server. I have made some absolutely phenomenal friends that are irreplaceable to me. And even though I'm not trying to turn this introduction into said list of recommendations, it also brings me so much joy to be able to do that. So forgive me in advance, but I I think it's one of the most important legacies that Southern Demonology has, to be quite honest with you.
So sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode featuring Chris from the Wandering Road Podcast as we delve into a topic that I really have been keen to cover. But I do want to reiterate something right here and now. What Chris and I are doing in this episode is commentary and an analytical discussion. I am making no factual statements that this is how it is, and it's the only way that things can be interpreted.
In fact, if I have a listener out there who is a member of one of these two organizations that's involved and vehemently disagrees with me, then please contact me because I am more than willing to have an open dialogue on this topic. In fact, Chris and I say the same thing, whether that's going to be in part one or part two. Even I am not quite sure at this point because even though I spend a whole lot of time of editing, this one has been a lot more involved than I have ever gotten into. But I do hope that you'll like our thoughts on this matter going forward. Hello, all.
We're gonna do something brand new for this one in a few different regards. We do have a familiar voice returning with us tonight, and that would be Chris from the Wandering Road Podcast, who's become an excellent friend and someone who I greatly appreciate their insights. So I wanted to bring him on to help us out. How are you doing tonight, Chris?
I'm doing good, JJ. It's been a long day, but uh I'm excited to get this show going.
Amen to that one. I feel you all too well. The second thing is well, really the new thing that we're going to be doing tonight is a particular topic that I have never brought up before, which is kind of surprising given my logo and what people initially think of when they see or hear about my podcast, which is the exact opposite of what it is. I want to start off with something interesting. And it's a recent children's book. I'm not going to read the name, and I want you to see if you can figure out the connection with what we're really going to be talking about tonight.
So I'm not the world's best voice actor, as you are all very well aware, but I hope you will put up with me as I read through this.
Howdy, everybody. This here's Beelzebub. Former Minion of Evil, five-time employee of the month in the Dragon Souls to Perdition category. So JJ, he's got himself this year's podcast, and he calls it Southern Demonology. To be honest, I'm the only real Southern Demon that I know of. I live out Tupalaway. Drive me a 1967 Chevrolet C10 pickup truck. A man is one sweet ride. But I thought maybe I could be an ambiguously demonic voiceover artist and help JJ out. He's a pretty good fella. Alright, here goes. Respect everyone's right to be, especially when they disagree.
If their words they make you sad, set them free. Don't be sad. Science helps us to understand the world and all we see. And so we shouldn't bend the truth to prop up our beliefs. Nothing wrong with the sentiment, but the uh overall uh poetic ability. I think we ought to get somebody else to write the poetry. Now it's time for tucking toes. Sip your water and blow your nose. Blow your nose. Put this book upon itself. Good low. Heal yourself.
The title of this book, Goodnight Baphomet, released well, I first ran across this video on the official channel that belongs to the Satanic Temple. And that, in addition to the contents of this book, are going to be our main topics tonight. When I ran across this video, I shared it to my really good friend Chris here, who we have become stalwart TikTok buddies. And uh before I launch into what I think, Chris, what was your impression when you first saw this video?
You actually shared the video with me with the gentleman reading it. Unfortunately, I can't recall what page that was, but that's neither here nor there. I was listening to it at first, to be honest with you. Like I didn't watch the video, I just had it down because I was typing while I was doing something, and I'm like, okay, it starts off pretty simple and normal. And then as you listen to it, I listened to it a couple times and I I actually found it online and tried to read it, and it's one of those things where it's like it starts off nice, like, yeah, it's a little bedtime story.
I personally don't like that it's you know a little children's book with the Baffet Man in it. But I'm like, okay, let's see where this goes. But uh, the more you read it, the more I became more uncomfortable. I don't know if that was the same case for you. I'm like, uh, underlying themes of selfishness and whatnot. I I don't know. What what's your perspective on it?
Uh a few things. Let's get a few misconceptions or at least clarifications out of the way. What does the satanic temple actually advocate for? Publicly they insist that there is no devil, there is no Satan. And this is actually what the Church of Satan, which was the original uh institution that took the name of Satan as its patron and found it back in the 60s, 69, I believe, if the date's right. But it was done by uh a man named Anton Levey. And LeVay had some pretty he practiced what they like to call radical humanism, which is every person belongs to oneself, and your will is invalid.
Nobody can touch you no but without your permission, no one can tell you what to do, and he advocated for this ultimate freedom, if you will. And for we'll get into a conversation that his partner had with Art Bell in a little bit, but then comes the Satanic Temple, and it actually has major beef with the Church of Satan, it does not believe in magic, so it says, Still does not believe in Satan, so they say, and they are both a tax-exempt organization, and well, you know the old saying that you know where all lawyers are ultimately going to end up.
Well, they have a huge legal presence, and that's why I'm not going to try to tempt fate, because I'm a little small fry, and goodness knows they could chew me up. But they too believe in a lot of the same things. However, you know, whereas the Church of Satan, so the satanic temple claims that everything is based on the individual, and it's a very loosely held organization, or at least nowadays, uh supposedly. The temple is much more rigorous. They hold twice weekly virtual congregations, they wage huge legal battles and etc.
When I was reading this, some of these items come through just as you would expect. Be kind to all, do what's fair and never stray. But then things get a little bit twisted as you go further into it. Even when rules get in the way. Okay, that's an interesting take. I always stand for what is right, the right bit is something I'm gonna come back to because I don't think I've ever really talked about it before. But there is an absolute difference between what is just or right and what is moral or good.
In fact, back in the day, I created an entire fantasy system which views different values as deities, but that's neither here nor there. Oh, and when it's dark, you're be the light. The light. Who does that remind you of?
Lucifer.
That would be correct, the light bringer. Your body is yours. If you did not know, and I you know, I do not delve in political topics, I don't come down one way or the other publicly, but I will say that when Roe versus Wade was overturned for the first time in fifty some years, and for the first time in this hit country's history, rights which were guaranteed no longer are. And the Satanic Temple actually had a pretty good marketing stunt.
They released a brand new order in order to fight sort of this religious extremism that has been sweeping the country, unfortunately, by releasing a program called the Samuel Alito's Mothers Center for Reproductive Freedom. And whether you agree with it or not, that is a bloody brilliant marketing tactic. And that's how they've been spreading their name all the way throughout. But this is another tenet of modern-day Satanism. Your body's your ears and yours alone. Nobody else can say what to do. That s smacks into the regular, but we still haven't really delved off the deep end, right?
I mean, it if you didn't really know who published this book, you would still think that okay, maybe, you know, maybe a little sus here or there, but otherwise, still not too bad.
JJ, if I could interject for a quick moment. What I do want to point out and make clear for the listeners, your listeners today, with the statement within the book that you were just talking about with the your body is yours and yours alone, in no shape or form are we advocating to one side or the other, nor is JJ doing that. It's more in the sense of just doing an analysis of what they're saying. And I think that has to be said because you know, in today's world, people like to get really stuck up over certain things. And I think that line in particular can be up for interpretation.
I think most of it can, but it depends on the way that you look at it. But I I think it's clear to, you know, we're not saying that like you should do this or you should do that. It's more so just an analysis based off of what they've said before and what's within this text.
Yes. Thank you for that clarification. Yeah, I am directly quoting this work. These are not words that are straight out of my Mouth, nor am I advocating for anything one or the other. But thank you for that. Because uh yeah, I've gotten myself in trouble for that when people didn't realize I was doing a peer analysis. Yeah. Text you can put quotes around things to let you know, let other people know. I do a similar thing by normally add a little bit of reverb, which I will do here and post, but yeah, I'll try to make it a little bit more evident uh going forward.
But but this is the part that when I was listening to the narrator speak it, it really set my spider senses to tingling. Respect everyone's right to be, especially when they disagree. If their words make you mad, set them free, don't be sad. What do you take that last sentence to mean?
So to me, that one, immediately I thought, okay, if their words make you mad, set them free, don't be sad. I thought of it as get rid of them. And I don't get rid of them, plain and simple. And I don't think they're talking about cut off contact, go no contact. I think in the if you take the example of someone getting in your face, let's say there, for example, someone cuts you off and they get road rage and they're all up in your face and you happen to be armed, set them free. And don't be sad about it and go about your day.
I agree with that. The pronoun them is very ambiguous. Set them free. Are they referring to the people that have made you?
Are they referring to the words that made you mad? We don't know. And it's not like this thing is following a very strict rhyming coupla. It's not, it's all over the map. So they could have made it more clear, but yet they're leaving it open to interpretation. And this is something that I brought up on a previous podcast, but I'll repeat it again here. Not on mine, but actually on the paranormal rundown. And I don't think that's going to come out before this one does.
But anyway, one of my best friends named Jeff, who I've mentioned before, when we were back in either college or high school, he was reading the satanic Bible. And one day he came up to me and said, You know what? I've been reading this thing. And I said, Okay. And he said, There was a line in there that really took me by surprise. And it was, if someone angers you or is bothering you, or they are your enemy, destroy them utterly. And that was a direct quote: destroy them utterly.
And I've heard this echoed again, although in a much nicer fashion, by the former head priestess of the Satanic Church, who was Anton LeVay's cohort. I guess I don't think they were legally married, but she had his child and they worked together. But she went on Art Bell so many moons ago, and I will actually post a link to that video that which you can still find on YouTube.
And she was talking to Art Bell, and Bell himself, when it came to the nature of this interview, he said on a subsequent recording that the day, the night that he actually held this interview, he found her to be utterly charming. And she was very down-to-earth, very intelligent, very plain spoken, and he didn't he didn't really see what the fuss was about until the next day, and he began to ruminate upon some of the things that she had said and some of the hidden meanings that had come through. And then he got the chills.
And I was and as I was listening to this interview oh, so many moons ago, and I shared it with Chris just so I can get his take on this as well. It is frightening because they actively practice magic, they would go into this ritual chamber, and the example that she gave is let's say someone at work is bothering you. Were you gonna say something?
Yeah, I I actually was going to interject a bit on the whole destruction ritual, but I by all means, you could you could continue.
Okay, and then I'll I'll pause at the end. But they would go in, she would go into the destruction ritual, mean into the ritual chamber, and she would unleash her will in the form of a spell with the goal of removing this person. And as she phrased it, it doesn't really matter what happens to this person. Could they get into a car accident? Sure. But it's m it's just as likely that that might get promoted and get moved to Hawaii. The end result is it doesn't matter because they are no longer a stumbling block for you. And whenever I read this, set them free.
That is the one thing that came to mind of unleashing your will upon the universe. Because remember, your will is invalid, and that way nothing can stand in your way. Go ahead, Chris.
Yeah, one thing I wanted to touch on about specifically about that example, because I listened to that Art Bell interview twice, and when you listen to it the second time around, you can tell that art is a little unsettled as the interview goes on. Usually with Art Bell, he doesn't interject his personal beliefs as much with other with his other interviews he's done. But with this one, you can see, you can hear like towards the end before the collars come on, like he kind of tries not to directly challenge her, but he does ask some questions of like, well, what about this and what about this?
That you don't really see in some of his other episodes, which I thought was really interesting. But what I wanted to touch on real quick with that destruction ritual that they talk about, it's a complete lack of care for your fellow human being. Now, I don't want to jump too far ahead. They there's a claim that you know they're humanist, you know, they really don't believe in an actual deity of Satan, but when you for example, the destruction ritual, it they just it's very selfish, it's very self-centered. There is no care for what happens to that person.
And I always think back to the whole story of uh Cain and Abel, when Cain kills his brother and God asks, Where's your brother? and he essentially asks, Am I my brother's keeper? And that always plays into my mind. Like, even though you don't like someone, you have a moral responsibility as a human being to not take that person's life or to wish harm upon them in any shape or fashion.
Because it's like, it's all about me, but I'm not taking into consideration that this person may be a certain way, they may be going through a certain thing, and that just what she said just completely throws that out the window. You essentially downgrade this other person to a non-human level, you put them below you as opposed to realizing that this is another person, if that makes sense.
It does, yeah. And I completely agree with that. And then the next stanza is kind of a pot shot against some Christian faiths, and this fact that you know science helps us to understand the world and all we see, so we shouldn't bend the truth to prop up our beliefs, and you know, that is unfortunately something in which you can see in extremely devout Christian denominations. Like, for example, when I was a kid, I, as most of you know, would go to a Southern Baptist church that was a mile up the road from my house.
And one night they were going to put on a special presentation, and I was curious, so I went, and it was just me. My my mom did not go, she never went to this church, so I went, and the presentation was all about a brand new identified demonic influence that is putting our kids' lives in danger. Would you happen to guess what this horrible, sneaky influence could possibly be?
This was before my time, but I'm assuming DD.
That would be a fantastic guess, and I've actually had people tell me I was gonna go straight to hell for playing DD back in the day in middle school, but it wasn't, it was something much more nefarious. It was the Smurfs. By the way, oh when I was a kid, my god, I watched it. I mean, it was to me, it was awesome. But yeah, to hear that, you know, because what the wizard's name was uh Gargamel and the kit cat's name was Azriel, then oh my gosh, that's they're just promoting Satanism in all forms.
And I mean, you have to remember this was in the height of the satanic panic to begin with, which I haven't really done a show about, and I really should at some point. But there is this idea, and unfortunately, some denominations do take this to heart, where they strictly prohibit or severely limit their parishioners' consumption of outside media. If it does not fit into the narrative in which they believe in, then it is ruled as satanic or evil in nature and should not ever be consumed. And so to me, this is a pot shot against that. Did you have any other thoughts on this?
Yeah, I agree with you on that assessment that it is a pot shot. And me being the person I am, I'm very analytical. I went to school for history, I have a master's in history. So, from an analytical perspective, and being a person that's a fan of, well, not a fan of, but enjoyed studying the Crusades in antiquity when there was a lot of religious tension, those time periods particularly draw my attention. You can't, I can't really refute anything that they say there, that that pot shot is kind of legitimate.
That when you look at stuff with like Copernicus and Galileo and how people were demonized for you know their scientific beliefs, like even Hypatia was, I think she was skinned alive with seashells. So, yeah. So I mean, like in that sense, okay, all right, they got a goal on that front. I'll I'll I'll give you that one. But other than that, I'm not relenting anything else.
But then the very last thing that this book says, hail as an H A I L, hail yourself. If that is not the ultimate satanic cry, then I don't know what is. And you know, when you start off reading this, uh, and I'm gonna have to break into a little bit more of my nerd side, and I apologize for that.
But when you start off reading this, if you've ever played DD and you know about the alignment system, it really kind of makes you think of chaotic good, you know, do what's right, even when the rules say not to, that smacks of chaotic good, but then you get to letting them be free and hail yourself, and at the end of the day, it becomes nothing more than kind of the ultimate representation of lawful evil. This is just like Chris said, it is pure selfishness, it is self-centeredness taken to a universal scale, and if that is not frightening, then I don't know what is.
One thing I wanted to touch on, you brought up the concept of lawful evil, and I think that's a really important point that you put out there, the concept of lawful evil. And the reason I say that is if you look at human history in general, and if you look at the way our world is structured, unfortunately, a lot of our systems function in that fashion and function in that fashion in the past.
For example, the Servile War, I think it was the third Servile War when Spartacus, I'm not sure if you're familiar with Spartacus, but he led a rebellion of gladiators and and slaves, and as a result, they lost a Servile War, but as a result, everyone else that were still in bondage had to suffer. The Gauls sacked Rome under Brennus. 300 years later, my favorite Roman general, Julius Caesar, conquered Gaul as retribution, and you're talking about 300 years later, so what they view as lawful good. So it all depends. So that's where it gets not lawful good, chaotic good.
Is that what you said before? Yeah, chaotic good. So what seems good to one group of people is complete chaos to the other. And if you look at our modern world, and I hesitate to talk about our modern world today, you know, our present day, because a lot of countries act in that fashion in which they are willing to completely carpet bomb somewhere just to get back at one person.
That's true. So I'm going to delve into a little bit of political philosophy here. And have you ever, uh Chris, have you ever read like uh John Locke, Rousseau, Hobbes?
Like 15 years ago, a very long time ago, for my undergrad.
But most of the I I think, but most of them frame things in terms of a state of nature, and then and which is the before times, before there was a social contract that was established that would then form a particular government. And the type of government that each one of these individuals would advocate for were they changed the state of the state of nature to reflect why that type of government may have come around. For example, John Locke, he believed that the even though the state of nature was largely peaceful, there was no proportional justice that was there.
If someone stole a loaf of bread from or a piece of fruit from somebody else, then the other individual could kill them. And there was no repercussions, there was no sense of equal justice, and people got tired of this, and so they banded together and formed a government that was all about life, liberty, and property. Hobbes believed that the state of nature was a nasty, brutish, and short affair in which even the strongest person had to sleep. Nobody was safe.
And so the people banded together and formed a totalitarian government that was so monstrous, had so much power that its people could never leave its grasp to go back into a state of nature. And you know, there's others, there's Rousseau who thought that the state of nature was just peaceful. There was Rawls, who is the more modern version, who actually didn't do a state of nature, but rather the state in which people actually, before they were even born, they could see how the world really is.
And then they would advocate for a fair and equitable distribution of goods and services because you didn't know if you were going to be born rich, poor, whatever, and you wanted the best life for everyone involved. But what where I'm going with this, and I really do have a point, I swear to goodness, is there's one other philosopher who dabbled a little bit in political theory, and he's not really thought as ever touching on politics, and that is Immanuel Kant, the famous moral philosopher, who's also very famous for being extremely boring, but we're we won't touch upon that right now.
But anyway, Kant theorized that just as there was a state of nature for individuals, there is also a state of nature amongst countries, in which every country would act independently, they would act completely selfishly, they would look only for their own best interest, but eventually they would band together and form a social contract amongst nations, and thereby eliminating the state of nature amongst countries, which you never hear people really talking about that piece of it, and I always found that extremely interesting. But I I would completely agree with you on that one.
You know, countries by nature have to be self-serving, because uh otherwise nobody else is gonna look after after them unless they've made extremely potent allies. But that's a pretty long winded tangent, but anyway, I I apologize for that. No worries at all. So that is goodnight baffament, and I wanted bring it up for discussion just because of the fact that it really does typify a lot of the principles that you refine whether they like it or not in both the satanic temple and the church of Satan. But I would also posit that this whole thing is a rather fantastic smoke show.
I know that they say that they do not believe in a real Satan. Even though the Satanic Temple does claim that Anton LeVay did actually believe in a Satan. Uh in fact they say that his consort he actually said that he did, even though on the Art Bell interview she vehemently denied that. But all of this really does tie into a belief of a devil and it's for a few reasons. First, why would you take the name of Satan?
Now LeVay's consort claimed that it was because every culture has an accuser an enemy and as because they're voting for absolute humanism then it would only make sense to claim Satan or the devil as their banner. But I really think at the end of the day and I and especially the Satanic temple has been so good at marketing I think it just c casts their net wide open. You know if you're advocating that yep there's a devil come worship the losing side no problem at all then you're going to limit your scope a great deal. Whereas if you say oh no he's not real don't don't worry about that.
We really believe in you then you've just made a much stronger case thank you for listening to Southern Demonology find us online at Southerndemonology.com which offers links to all of our social media and episodes Southern Demonology is solely owned produced and edited by myself and the intro and outro music are composed by me as well. If you have a moment please rate like and share this podcast as it is the best way to help support my work. As always I am JJ and it has been a pleasure to speak to you today ProFootball is back and so are the predictions.