We see skinwalk around just made me accept the possibility of portals. And again, you know, always for me when people talked about portals, I switched off. I just think, oh, here they go with their damn portals, but maybe, just maybe.
Are you interested in angels, demons, ghosts, spirits, and monsters? Are you curious about their origins, tales, and influence upon history and on the present day? If so, then sit back, relax, and welcome to Seven Demonology, the podcast that explores all of this and more.
Because I question everything. When I was a teenager from like age 13 to 17, I was an atheist myself. I didn't openly admit it, but my mom would always, and she would call me an atheist in Spanish, and I would laugh at her. The reason being is because I ever since I was a child, I was always into history. Then I started to get into World War II. And then you start reading about different atrocities throughout the world. And then the older you get, the more you gain knowledge and consciousness on, like you said, childhood cancer. Why does a baby get cancer?
Why are certain things allowed to happen this way? And I would find myself questioning like I'd be laying, I'd be 16 years old, laying in bed at night, thinking, like, why is God letting this happen? Is there a God? And then going through the paranormal experiences that I went through and my mom doing what she did from a Catholic perspective to protect us. Well, she did what she thought she had to do to protect us. I'm like, okay, that worked. So maybe there's something to it. So that kind of gravitated me towards the Catholic faith. Am I like fully in like a devout Catholic? No, not at all.
I'm more of the type of, okay, with Jesus, his main tenants is don't be a dick to people. That resonates with me.
I remember reading that and um and Jesus said unto his disciples, be thou not a dick unto people. But you know, it's a it's an interesting thing. I don't remember the precise numbers, but if you condense sleeve the Old Testament to one side, which is the majority of the Bible, just take the New Testament. If you if you filter the New Testament down to the to the words of Jesus Christ, as reported in the Gospels, it's a matter of pages.
The majority of the New Testament is written by Paul, who's right I mean, JJ, you probably know more precisely than I, but that's m it's my understanding that Paul was writing at least a hundred years after Jesus lived, never knew him, never met him. But most of most of conventional Christianity is actually Paulanity. It's Paul's ideas. It's not Jesus Christ's ideas.
He's complicated in terms of what he says, I think, you know, uh Jesus who coming with a with a sword to separate families and divide fathers from sons and so forth, these these are not comforting words of of the good shepherd, talking like that, and you know, the mustard seed. And it always seems to me if you're going to be a Christian, if you're going to call yourself a Christian, then you'll have to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, it would logically follow.
And the only the only place you can go to get to anything remotely resembling what we would call a manifesto is the Sermon on the Mount and the Beatitudes. It's an impossible creed. It's an impossible way to live. He very explicitly is rejecting the whole of the Old Testament. You have been told an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, I tell you no. I'm personally always amused by it's not just it's not just America, but particularly America wanting to claim itself as a Christian country. It's when Jesus says, uh you know, no, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, no.
Seems to me America's not listening. And Jesus says if, you know, if if if if someone smites you on the cheek, then don't hit him back, present the other cheek and invite him to hit that one as well. Blessed are the meek, etc. It's uh it's a pacifist doctrine. It's it's an explicitly pacifist doctrine, and it's not it's not a doctrine God knows that America has ever followed and isn't doing now, God knows.
And in terms of in terms of the present conflict, seems to me it's fine for Benjamin Netanyahu to to evoke an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, because that's his religion, and that's the voice of the Old Testament God. But anyone who purports to be a Christian, like Pete Hegseth, cannot embrace that because the founder of his religion explicitly forbids him to do it.
The sad part is that with the rise of Christian nationalism, you can take quotations from the New Testament and play it to conservatives and have them denounce that as woke ideology. I mean, sure.
I mean it's it's pacifist and it's in it's in some ways anti-capitalist as well, you know, to consider the ladies of the field. They sow not, neither do they reap. Yet I tell you Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. No. And and have no thought for the morrow, for the morrow will take care of itself. Is not the way that we live our lives at all. God knows, we're always worried about it's an impossible creed to live by, it seems to me. And I'm not sure that I would necessarily want my country to be turning the other cheek if it if it was if it if it was attacked.
That's not my problem, because I don't call myself a Christian. But if you call yourself a Christian, you have to follow the teachings of the founder of your religion. And if you can't do it, then you shouldn't be a Christian.
Yeah. I I'm with you there. And I think the difficult part is I think to fully follow it, you have to have empathy. And a lot of people, I think in today's world, it's very a lot of us, I'm guilty of it. We're all guilty of it. We all have a single-track mind of, you know, what what can I do to benefit me? And the lack of empathy is what doesn't allow that actual type of teaching to to grow. Because a lot of people will willing I I try not to do this recently.
Like I've always like, if I go walk through Market Square and I see someone sitting there asking for money or something, if I got five bucks, I'm gonna give it to them just because I want to. Makes me feel good, you know.
You know, when when Jesus says talks to his disciples uh about, you know, none of you are going to heaven because of the way you treated me, and that, you know, I was hungry and you didn't feed me and I had nowhere to live and you didn't give me a place to live, and the disciples are very confused and ask him w w you know what what he means, and then he makes it a universal thing that if you if you rejected people who had nowhere to live, and if you rejected people who didn't have anything to eat, then you were rejecting him.
And he says that directly to inasmuch as you did it or you did it not unto one of these, the least of my little ones, you did it not unto me. Again, it's not it it it's not a policy that I personally would want to want to see my country follow. It seems to me if anyone would be an advocate of open borders, it would be Jesus Christ. I think everybody would be welcome, wouldn't they? Yeah.
I can't see that he would he would shut anybody out because everybody is the child of God, right? Everybody. Even if they don't know it, they are, according to Jesus. How did we get here?
I think I was gonna ask you your thoughts on uh I think we it we got here because of my ghost stories.
So that's an extraordinary story that that you that you tell, Chris. It's amazing, it's very, very powerful. So what do you think was going on?
To be honest with you, Doug, I don't know. That's the thing. I I I guess JJ, when I first met him, what was it, three years ago, JJ? I came on your show and I was at the end of my story. Anytime I go on a show, like I'm gonna be on the spooky shed podcast tomorrow to share all of my stories. And at the end, I always say, I'm not here for you know, like to be like famous or anything like that. I don't know what it was. Please tell me what it was. Please tell me you have a scientific explanation because I'd rather have a scientific explanation saying you might have been hallucinating.
Oh, there might have been a gas leak. There might have been something genuinely going on to cause this that caused some sort of psychosis instead. Maybe you imagined the whole thing. But the more I share it and the more people I talk to, and they all come to the consensus, it's like, I don't know what it is, man, but it sounds something of the infirm. And that's Mr. Demonologist, each of the demonologists here. Well, go off.
Because I I give consultations to people that believe or you know have truly encountered something that is well beyond their kin and seems to function even beyond what they would deem to be a paranormal level, but rather a preternatural level. Everything that because me, Chris can I know can go on for hours with additional stories and tidbits and whatnot, because I've I've listened to all of it, and it strikes me to be not merely something paranormal but infernal in nature. But again, I I can't say that for sure because I don't know.
I mean, we're all if you take the spirit world or whatever you want to call it to be real, we have no inkling as to how it operates, what the rules behind it are, if there are rules behind it. And so we're we're guessing, but my my guess, which is you know, at least somewhat educated, I hope, is that it does seem to be infernal in nature.
Can I ask you to expand a bit on what you mean by infernal? You mean demonic? Dark.
Yeah. Right. Uh something that because my view of I I believe that there's two types of evil. And again, this is my belief. I'm I'm not one arrogant enough to think that everyone should believe what I believe. In fact, God help them if they do. But uh, I've always viewed evil as being in two different camps. You have that of the human and that of the of the of the demonic. And like human evil is typically around short-sightedness, selfishness, but demonic is the urge to destroy completely, to corrupt, to putrefy.
And that's exactly what it, you know, a lot of the things in which Chris is detailed, that's what it is. I mean, there's no good reason for something to behave in this fashion unless it is trying to corrupt or just to simply terrify for no other reason.
Would you therefore the German women across the street are are warning your aunt that the house has a history. Yes. And that they might want to have the house cleansed to remove that. I'm wondering, JJ, do you would you believe that there is something pre-existing in the house that is tending to cause people to behave in the way that they did, of what Chris described in of what supposedly or what the what the German women were saying of the the girl who may have been abused, possibly murdered, uh w w whatever other practices were going on?
What I'm wondering is, do you think that there are external pre-existing forces in the house that that have infected people and made them behave in those ways, or is the behavior of people in the house, and this i is, I guess, the the stone tape theory, is that leaving leaving a mark in the house, like an indelible stain in the house in in terms of pain and suffering, evil things done to people in the house? That's a good question.
But Doug, I will share this one detail that I didn't share earlier. So when we moved into the home, my aunt and uncle downstairs kept some of the previous homeowners' furniture. Another thing that they didn't do immediately was for a few years, they never fully cleaned out the attic. So they didn't clean out the attic until like I got closer to the end of my time there, and they found a German Bible and they found a Buffin SS uniform.
So if there was So was this German women across the street, and you've got you got Nazi uniforms and German Bibles. So Yeah. The previous owners were German as well.
So the home I think was built in the 1920s. So the previous owners were German. And judging what by what they found with the World War II paraphernalia, so to answer your question and JJ, I'll kick it back to you.
Um But do you have any guess as to why that un I mean, do you did do we think that they that somebody may have been a member of DSS who lived in the house? I I would assume so. Previously? Or were they just collecting Nazi memorabilia, which quite a lot of people do who are not necessarily fascists necessarily, though I think it's a you know it's an it's an unhealthy thing to be doing.
But I agree. Whatever. The so when we when my parents and my aunt and uncle they bought the home, apparently the kids sold it immediately, as is, as soon as their mother died. The rumor is that she was not a very nice lady. So either her husband was an SS soldier or they left were interest, were on that side of the belief in general. Yeah, right. Yeah, we don't, unfortunately. Okay. And they never really looked into it. Like my parents and my aunt and uncle, like being like immigrants from the Caribbean, they didn't really think to it on I'm not trying to insult their intelligence.
They didn't really think of it on that level as like I would have right now if I could go back in time with my experience and my age and my academic background. And it's like, okay, this is weird. I should probably look into this.
Sorry, we we need to come back to you, JJ, because you were you were in you you you were in the middle of the year. You were gonna say something. I'm wondering whether you whether you I'm intrigued that you say that that the one part of the house you didn't go into was the attic. And I'm wondering whether there was a feeling that there was it was like a place you not that you shouldn't you shouldn't be going into, but that you didn't want to go into. One and always feel comfortable being in.
Yeah, it creeped me out. It was it was one of those walk-in, like you could stand up in those types of attic, and there was like a lot of like junk in there from the previous owners. And you know, being a kid, like you see things and it's like it's dark, it's eerie. I don't wanna I don't wanna deal with that type of stuff. I will say that there were times like just being on that floor, that landing. So when you walk into the home as and you you walk in, and then there's a doorway, a little doorway to the staircase that took you up to our flat.
And then you walk around and it took you to the basement where my parent was where my grandparents were staying. Once you entered the the house, the doorway immediately to the left was to my aunt's flat. That area between the staircase going down to the stairs and up and around that second landing, it always just you just felt like there's something watching me, and I just need to get my ass up the stairs as quickly as possible as I can and just go in and just shut the door.
So it I don't know if it was in the attic or if it was that general vicinity of the area where you just felt really uncomfortable. My sister and my cousin went back before my aunt sold the home, I think in either in 2013 or 2014. And that same area I just described on the first floor landing, where you would walk past and go to the side of the staircase towards the basement, they went over there. They there was a barbecue for my sister's graduation.
They decided to go through the front door, they went to that area because my aunt had a shoe rack and they were taking off their shoes, and they're both my sister and my cousin. I asked them to share this story at different times on different recordings, and they both detailed it the same way and didn't know either of them was gonna be on my show. So they both said they were leaning down, untying their laces, and then my cousin says to my sister Jenny, she nudges her and says, Jenny, do you see that?
My sister looks up, and in the doorway to the stairs that lead to the basement is this like seven foot tall dark mass, just darker than dark mass. A human shape? It was it didn't have a human, it was just like a dark, shadowy type of shape. Goosebumps. Sorry. You're not alone. And I and one thing I will say, because I have my holy water and holy oil, when I talk about this stuff, it's like it knows. So I kind of like share it's sparing. They see the figure, they put their shoes back on, they haul ass, tell my aunt, like, hey, not feeling well, gonna go, and they never go back to that house.
Fast forward to 2022. My sister goes to New York to visit family for about three months. But what period of time are we fast forwarding? So this happened in so about eight years or so. Okay. So from 2014, so about eight years or so. For some reason, she's with the same cousin, and they're at my aunt's house that lives five blocks away. They decided they were gonna go to the store because in New York you can walk pretty much anywhere. They decided for some particular reason, let's walk down the old street and let's walk by that house.
As they're walking by the house, they both said at the same time they got sharp pains in their temples. Like migraines just like instantly happen. And they're like, oh my God, like my head's hurting. What I don't know what's going on. They just walk down the street, they get to the other street over, gone. Like that, gone. And another thing, like my aunt, this was while we were living there. The family like lived in like a five block radius with one another, which was really nice because I got to see my cousins and stuff frequently. We went down there for a barbecue.
She was home alone in her flat. This is like two o'clock in the afternoon. She is hearing someone running back and forth in our flat. So she calls and it went to the answering machine. Younger listeners, yeah, we had landlines and we had answering machines. So the answering machine picks up, nobody's there. She goes up to the door, she starts knocking on the door, the footsteps stop, nobody answered. And then she goes back downstairs, the footsteps start again. The stopping starts again. She's like, What the fuck is going on? So she calls my dad on his cell phone.
He picks up the phone and he's like, Hey, what's going on? We're over at XYZ's place. We're having a barbecue. We're not gonna be home for till about maybe eight, nine o'clock tonight. Is okay? Do you need me to come over? She's like, No, I just I didn't know if like people were upstairs because I heard like footsteps and noise upstairs. And he's like, No, nobody's up there. She's like, Oh, okay. She hung up the phone.
Is that up in the attic that they're hearing?
No, in our phone. Footsteps. Okay. Right. Yeah. She hangs up the phone and she said she locked herself in the room and laid in her bed with the TV on until we got back. So it's it's one of those things, Doug. Like, I it's funny now, but like when you think about it, it's like, what the actual fuck is going on there? Sure. So absolutely.
Well, so back to the question, JJ.
Preexisting or or imprinted in the house? So if it's paranormal, there's two different schools of thought when it comes to these things. And you would be right to ask that. If it's you know, it could be that when you die, there's you there's a horrible psychic impression that's left behind, and the spirit or whatever is circling around that, and it's almost like an old echo being played out, or it could have intelligence of some sort.
But when it comes to the infernal, there's there's this idea, especially within Christian theology, that demonic entities are locked to either a person or a place or a time. That's the main differentiator between the preternatural and the supernatural. Supernatural, there is no limits, whereas protonaturals are very limited. But it would seem like if this really is a case of the infernal, then it would be either brought in with those people that lived there before, or if they were doing dark things, opening doors which they should not have, then it could have been invited in. Yes.
Because we all I we we all react to buildings in those ways, I think, don't we? We all you pick up in immediately a feeling, as we do about people. You know, we'll just say casually, I don't know, there was just something about him. I never warmed to him, or or, you know, people that you just immediately feel very open with when when Steph, my wife and I moved in here after we've been here for a for a while, you know, we asked each other that question. Do you feel any anything weird? Or we subsequently discovered that somebody somebody died in the crawl space under the house.
He went down there. He he was a a large guy, I think. He went down there for some reason and had a heart attack and didn't didn't come out alive. They had to they had to drag him out. But in spite of that, you know, no, we s we said, no, no. I've been in every corner of the house at every minute of of the day or night, and I feel nothing but ease and peace. In in a previous house that uh that Steph was renting, and I was c I was coming over this before I was living here permanently, so I was coming uh over and and staying there from time to time.
I didn't say anything about this until she moved. So it was, you know, house down downstairs, upstairs. Steph had her bedroom downstairs, and her two children had rooms upstairs. And after after we'd moved on, I I said I just said to her at some point, because I think she may have been talking about uh she would put her kids who were twins, so they always went to bed at the same time, you know, in in their in their own bed, in their own room. They were never in their own beds, in their own room in the morning. They were always in both together in one or other of the beds.
Or they wanted to come downstairs to Steph. Her bedroom was downstairs. And I said, you know, it's weird, because I didn't I I was never really upstairs very much, I had no reason to be, but I was aware that when I did, nothing ever happened.
I didn't hear anything or or see anything, but just had a general feeling of I want to go downstairs, of not particularly wanting to be up there for no no definite reason, which clearly, though I had her children have never said to her that they heard anything or, you know, anything or saw anything, anything like that, but they felt the need to comfort each other in the night on an almost regular basis. And Steph has talked to a subsequent tenant in the house who described exactly the same thing, even more strongly.
Um there was some suggestion of a the owners of the house were very strange, very strange, and I think they had lived in the house with her mother, and there was some story about her being bedbound upstairs and maybe falling downstairs at some point. But on the ground floor level, nothing. Nothing, nothing at all. And Steph said to me, you know, she always felt exactly the same way about the upstairs, just never really was able to settle there. And I think I think we pick that up about buildings. Yeah.
I think we do leave traces behind in the world. We've we've touched on Nazis, and one of one of the things that I've never forgotten on a UK talk show uh hosted by Michael Parkinson, late 60s, it w would have started and went on for a long time. He had one of England's great comedians on, who was called Michael Benteen, he was kind of a fringe figure around the goons, so around Spike Milligan and Peter Sellers, names that Americans, particularly Peter Sellers, will be more familiar with, but uh Benteen was a slightly crazy guy, but very, very funny.
He uh helped liberate, I think it was Belson, if I'm remembering correctly. It doesn't really matter, one of the camps, but I think it was Bel Belson. And he talked he talked a little bit about it, and Parkinson was trying to probe a bit more, and he basically said, I don't really want to talk about it anymore, if you don't mind. But one thing that he did say that struck me very forcibly was that it he said it felt like the poison had seeped into the ground, and he said all around the camp that it was woods, and when you went out into the woods it was very noisy. It was bird song.
Moment you stepped across the barrier where the where the the the the fences would have been, complete silence. And he said we we never saw birds flying over the space that the camp occupied. It was like they flew around. We never saw much wildlife at all inside the camp, as though nature knew that this this is a place where unnatural things happened, where awful things happened, and this is it is not a place to be, not a place to go, and that that that residual evil, I think, is a word we could we can use. It's a word I'm shy of using, but in that instance, of course, yeah.
I kind of soaked into the earth physically and and metaphorically.
Yeah. No, I'm with you there. No, I'm sorry, JJ. Go ahead. No, you get that same kind of feeling. Have you heard of Oki Gahana, the suicide forest at the base of Mount? Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. I I went there and it the moment you cross the tree lines, it is just dead silent. There's nothing. Even though it's this gigantic rich forest, you would think it would feel more alive, and it absolutely does not. Complete silence, does yes, just nothing? Except for I heard uh a weird like drumming sound that no one else heard.
And even though I was demanding to go there and I dragged colleagues along with me, I had to leave after 20 minutes. We took a few photos and we got the heck out, and I will never go back. Wait, just because of the the oppressive atmosphere? The atmosphere and the sound that I heard. Like, even though we were drumming when there were no drummers exactly. Even though like we were 50 yards away from a major highway, once you cross that tree line, it's a complete sound barrier. You hear nothing, but I heard this thrumming that lasted the entire time I was there. No one else would hear it.
And it just scared the ever living crap out of me.
It's like what is it they say that the sound of children laughing is the most beautiful sound in the world, unless it's three o'clock in the morning and you have children.
But at this point, I grew up in a 200-year-old haunted log cabin in the middle of Tennessee, and it stered that still scared the ever-living heck out of me.
I mean, I feel I feel let down that I didn't live in a haunted house.
See, it's very formative. It helps, it it's formative, it makes you well, I grew up in the Bronx in New York City, so I'm sure that's probably part of it being chased by gangs and stuff. You're very hyper-aware of of other things of like stuff, but living in a haunted house, like you said, when you go into a building, you can pick up on vibes. Two years ago, when my wife and I we were house hunting before we purchased this home in Murraysville, we used to live in Elizabeth uh across the uh Boston Bridge. There was a home, I think it was in Trafford, and it was close.
If you're familiar with the restaurant Olives and Peppers stuff, yeah.
Yeah, kind of green way.
Yeah, yeah. It was probably it was like on the road to there, like but like one of the neighborhoods, probably 10 minutes away from it. And we saw this home, a listing. I was like, oh, this looks really nice. My wife wanted to go see it. So, you know, we do what the wife wants. It happened to be that we were waiting for our real estate agent to come and, you know, do the little pin thing to unlock the key, whatever, that the real estate agent that the listing agent actually lived across the street. So she came over, saw us let us in.
My mother-in-law and my stepmother-in-law were there, and it was my wife as well. So we're walking through the home. I'm like, okay, yeah, it's okay, look fine, whatever. When I tell you I step into that basement, it felt like I stepped through a time portal, and it felt like I was back into that in that home in Queens from when I was a teenager. And it was one of those things where, and I'm holding my crucifix. It was one of those things where Come on, you've seen the movies.
You know that won't help you.
At least with the centipytes and wall. At least I'll just throw some compact discs at you. Suddenly melted. Yeah. I'll bet you. Yeah, but sorry, go on. No, no worries. When I went down into that basement, Doug, I immediately I picked up on like something's off here. And it was like whatever was there knew that I knew it was there. Nope. I did not last two minutes down there. I was like, I am going back upstairs. And we're not buying this one. Nope. We went back outside. Um, we got in a car. We were gonna actually come to this house that we're that I'm in right now to tour.
And we're driving, and my wife was like, What did you think about that house? Yada yada yada. I immediately told her, absolutely not. It felt like I walked into when I walked into the basement, it felt like I walked into that house in Queens and I am not subjecting myself to that again. Sure. Not happening. Did she go into the basement? Yes. She doesn't have that feeling. No, she doesn't have that feeling. She the most she saw was like a lady ghost when she woke up like two o'clock in the morning to get as a child. She was probably like 17 or 8 years old, like at the bottom of the stairs.
She wanted to go get some water. She saw like some like white spirit just walk across, and that's to the extent that she's experienced. But uh cool, huh? I know. I I wish it was just the only thing that I have none of that. None of that. I have this thing. I would uh my previous episode we talked to this gentleman that's a psychic, and we talked about the concept of smells, and I would be doing something randomly, and I would smell my grandmother. She wore this distinct floral perfume, and I don't have that sense in my house. It would be it would be weird.
I'd be out for for a run when I could run, and I that whiff would just hit me. And it's like, oh, just immediately just think of my grandmother. And to the psychic gentleman that we spoke to, he's like, Yeah, that's actually a thing where you know you get a visitation of your loved one. So I'm like, okay, that's that's interesting. It's nice that you know they're checking up on you, something of that sort, if that's what you believe in. But uh JJ, what I wanted you to do was if you don't mind sharing your Hyrule story with Doug. God.
Actually, the funny thing is that I had qu I had quite a few different weird Japanese things. But one of them happened really recently before we bought the property that we did wind up buying in Tokyo. We had an agent taking us around to several different places. And one of them, it was on top of a mountain in the heart of Tokyo. It was almost like a silent hill kind of vibe where it was just completely fog covered. We went to this house, which looked fine on the outside, and everything was good. We were walking around it.
We went up to the attic, and it actually, strangely enough, had like a Disney logo on the door. I opened up that door and instantly felt hate. Like something did not want me there. And I have never ran down the stairs. Now, you have to imagine I'm a foreigner, I'm a gaijan. I'm wearing slippers that are like three times smaller than what my feet can accommodate in order to tour this house. I grab my wife, I'm running down these really short stairs, and we get the heck out of there.
And then I have to apologize to the real estate agent and tell them, no, this house is absolutely not going to be the one for us. And they're both looking at me like I'm crazy. And I'm like, I'm not crazy. I know what I felt in that house.
But you felt something that was threatening you, or just something did not want me there at all. It was the get out moment.
Yeah, exactly. And I've had the exact opposite experience in Japan as well. So I was living in the heart of Tokyo, and the apartment that I had that the company paid for, it had a huge balcony that you could see Tokyo Tower right from it. It was beautiful. I loved it. And it also overlooked a graveyard, caddy corner to the apartment building itself. Well, I was I was l up working late one night, and I finally fell asleep somewhere close to dawn. And I there was this thing on the balcony. It was translucent and it was banging its fists into the door and screaming one word over and over again.
Haidu. But I couldn't hear it with my ears. It was all like it was being pumped into the center of my brain. Never felt anything like that before or since. What does Haidu translate as? That's a good question. So I wake up shortly after I want to know the answer, but earthquake alarm going off of my cell phone, because this was shortly after 311, which I was there. And I that word is echoing in my head. I run to my dictionary, I look it up, and of course it means to enter. This thing was demanding entry.
And uh I know that even if I was even somewhat physically capable of actually allowing that thing to come in, I would not be here. So I from that day on I kept a very healthy supply of purified salt in little bowl by the balcony doors and never walked by that graveyard again.
Doug, to go back to what you said about the concentration camp. Was it a concentration camp that the Yes, I'm pretty certain it was Pelson. Yeah. Which was one of the Yeah. Actually, I when I used to work as like IT at a university, I had the pleasure of speaking to one of the math professors who was Romanian and was a Romanian freedom fighter, and his wife was a survivor of Auschwitz. So it was really interesting.
You know, his family unfortunately passed away there, but his wife survived to hear someone that actually, you know, fought fought the the Nazis during that time and what it was like. But me being a historian, I like to go to Civil War battlefields and I like to frequent Gettysburg.
There was one night, and I think this has been to Gettysburg a couple of times.
Yeah. And is it me like well when you step onto that battlefield, just this eerie, quiet feeling, unless you're hearing something.
I mean, the first time I went, I was somewhere else and I went on my own just because it was near enough for me to be able to do it. I couldn't I couldn't get a handle on the battlefield itself. I couldn't because it's a huge area. Yeah.
I couldn't really work that out, so I just, you know, I stood outside the the house where we know that Lincoln tore up the long speech and wrote the Gettysburg Address and then went went to the to the place where he had delivered the speech with the all the the piles of pennies around all the Lincolns. And now we're gonna get rid of the pennies. I I've been back and and I'd been there in the middle of the night as well, uh out to some extent, out on the battlefield. I'm not aware of that, I have to say.
Uh yeah, w was I just not aware of it, I don't know, but I don't I don't remember being aware of that. It's interesting enough.
Yeah, I went out, me and my friend, and we took our other buddy that was like a s he's a complicated fellow. He's he calls himself skeptical, but yet he when he goes to like Japan and other places, he will follow the like you said, JJ, when you go to a temple, like he'll very much adhere to those like rules of customs and stuff. And he's like, I'm just gonna just just to be safe, I'll do that. But even he said when we went to the union line of where Pickett's charge took place, it was like around 11:30 at night or so. We pull up.
I didn't know it was a federal crime that if you did that, so I do know now. Um so we got out and I walked maybe 10 feet away from the car and I just stopped. And I told my buddy Aaron, I'm like, I think we should get back in the and he's like, Yeah, it something doesn't feel right. And so we just got back in the car and we left, and that was that, and we're never gonna do that again. But I I think that falls in line with the stone tape theory that since energy can't really be destroyed, I think in those instances where you have like all that chaos, destruction, battle, all that stuff, I
I really think that's a scientific truth, isn't it? Isn't that a scientific fact that energy cannot be destroyed? It can only transmute and move somewhere else. But you Correct. It cannot be s stopped. Yeah.
Yeah. So who's to say that the nature around it with the chaos and destruction and all the sadness and grief did not just seep into the area like you said with the the camp where wildlife doesn't want to be around or anything of that sort of thing.
Again on the on the battlefield, and it's not, you know, it's it's less than 200 years ago. It's not that long ago. But the the scale of the slaughter and and and the maimed and the injured is in almost incomprehensible to us now. And if you try and if you if you try and imagine something like the Civil War or the Blitz in London with rolling 24-hour news, I don't know how people would would get through the Civil War. I don't know how people would have dealt with the Second World War if there had been, you know, rolling news, whereas it was common.
You know, the first the first victim of war is the truth. It was common that people didn't really know that the extent and the truth of of of of what was happening. And and it's you know, sometimes you wonder, is it was it not best that that was the case? But the the scale of the slaughter on that battlefield, which certainly the first time I visited, you know, I I don't I'm not steeped in understanding and knowledge of the Civil War. I understand it better now, largely thanks to the great Ken Burns.
Which I was just watching today.
And my stepson has been watching it again, and I've been thinking I should revisit that, though the American Revolution is is beckoning overdue that I go there. I have seen the Civil War before, but I wanted to r to revisit it. But it's very it's very hard just looking at the battlefield to remember the the scale of what was happening. Right.
And I believe Colodon, which is a very famous battlefield in Scotland, scene of a battle between the English and and the Scots. People talk about it in the in the same way as being a place that feels like a place of, you know, infinite sadness when you step onto it and visit it. It is true of buildings that you know I I I mentioned Tallow, which is a trans-Allegheny lunatic asylum in in Western, in in Virginia. So you your neck of the woods to some extent, I think, JJ, you should go to visit. If you haven't been, it's an amazing building apart from anything else.
And it was built with the very best of intentions. So it is it's full of daylight and full of windows, because that was that was God, my memory for names. I I want to say Kirk Bride. People will forgive me if I've got that name wrong, but who who built it because he believed that people people who were mentally troubled needed daylight and fresh air, and it was built for a a specific occupancy, a number of people who were supposed to be in there. And very rapidly there were far too many people in the building. But also they it was self-servicing.
So the patients ran the laundry, they grew their own crops, they they they worked on doing that, and the grounds are quite extensive, and they were allowed to go out and walk around the grounds, and in some cases to leave the grounds and and and and move around the town. And then at some point that changed, and you know, the laundry was outsourced and other people came in to to run the farm, or that just stopped and the food was brought in. And they say that the staff at the time all say the same thing.
From that point on, the whole the whole place changed because people, you know, in inverted commas, complicated words, people got madder, people got more insane, they got more mentally unwell because they had nothing to do now but sit around and think about being mad. And it's even in broad daylight, it's uh it's it's a heavy atmosphere. And it had its own w one area of the building was used as a uh Civil War field hospital, and that has its own atmosphere all to itself.
You go back you go back at night when there's only a few of you in the building and it's it's another thing entirely, and I've d I've done that on a few occasions, and though as I say, I've never seen a ghost, but I've had I don't think I've ever been in that building without something odd, very palpably weird, hourly and happening that I can't explain. But I stress I can't explain. So I, you know, and I can't I won't tell you what it was, because I don't know.
Did you hear a noise or a scream or something or footsteps?
Well, it's a few times on one's a longer story, one's a quicker story. The the short story is down in the basement of the building where there is a video of a dog playing. I think it's a Labrador playing like a dog playing with somebody. Right? We know what that looks like. Yeah.
Only problem is there's nobody there. And that's that's taken down in in uh in in that area. And this was the lobotomy recovery area. And again, I have the name I f I feel like I feel like one of those people on the travel channel. I have the name Sinclair in my head. I I have no idea what I don't know what it's telling me. I feel uh anyway, he was he was he was the bastard doctor who did the ice pick lobotomies on an industrial scale. If people aren't familiar with that, you know, the lobotomy is separating the frontal corpse to stop people being crazy.
And this the method of doing this was to push an ice pick up the nose and basically do that in inside the head. And he would arrive at at the building and and carry out scores of these in a day and then pack his bag and leave. So this was the lobotomy recovery area in the basement. It's dark. We're coming out of the hallway, going into a room, and there's like a little vestibule area as you pass from the hallway into the room. Uh Steph's in front of me, I'm behind her, she's going about to go into the room. She's got her flashlight. And I was about to say to her, What's wrong?
Are you all right? When she turned round and said to me, What's wrong? Are you all right? I had heard right in front of me, and she had heard right behind her. Why something between us that we both heard that we both thought was each other reacting to something. Wow. The first time we were there, we were up on the the men's violent ward. So there was a kind of general men's ward, a men's violent ward. Not we were t not we were told the place that that the staff really didn't want to be on. That was the women's violent ward, apparently.
That was that was the place that the staff really didn't want to to to go near. But w we were we were on the men's violent ward, so it's it's long corridor, door, door, door, door, door with, you know, rooms. And then down at the end of the corridor was what they call the receiving room. So if you were coming to visit somebody, you would be taken into that room and they would be brought to you. So the place is very dilapidated now, of course, though the the the owners have been working on doing some restoration to take it back to as it would have looked in the nineteenth century.
But there's a lot of peeling paint and and you know, and stuff falling down. So we are standing in there and there's only Steph and I and the guy who was guiding us in the buildings, nobody else in the buildings, only the three of us. It's probably about one or two o'clock in the morning at this point.
The story on on the men's violent ward is that a murder was committed, that uh a fight broke out, and the guy who was killed was held on the floor by a bunch of other guys, and the guy who committed the murder lifted a bed and pushed the leg of the bed through his eye socket and right through his head. And that's the story that you're told. You're also told that that the the murderer is still alive and still in the new mental health facility that was built when Trans Allegheny was shut down, which, you know, obviously was is not that long ago.
So we're listening to this and we and we have these you know the the apps on the on the iPhone, the the ghost radar thing and you know, the skeptic in me is, you know, this this is this is fun, but it's it must be bullshit. Just I'm just holding an iPhone, you know. But it was it was talking to us and and as we're as we're doing this, is it just hearing what we're talking about and spitting stuff back out of us in response to what it's hearing? I I don't know. I mean just mechanically, physically the app. But it I think it was playing it was saying fight, flight, run, fall.
It it was specific words like that. And Chaz, the the guy was who was telling us the story, and uh I'm looking at that radar thing on my phone, you know, the little the little coloured blobs come up that are supposedly telling you where the spirits are. He's he's standing across from us. Steph and I are standing with our backs to a wall. Next to Steph, there's what would have been would have been a wall area around the doorway, but all the plaster is gone. So there's just that kind of you know, that kind of interweaving metal structure that the plaster would have been built around.
I said to Chaz, wow, well, by the way, for what it's worth, there are apparently three of them standing right behind you at the moment. At that moment, I heard what what I describe as that faintly f fluty sound that pigeons' wings make when they take off that kind of but slightly almost whistly noise. I hear that in the same moment that Steph screams and jumps from where she's standing across to here, and she's standing next to that metal thing. What she described was she she heard what it's if that as though someone had run a credit card down that metal grating, down down it.
So she hears that in the moment that I'm hearing what seemed to me to be the sound of pigeons taking off. Uh and we, you know, all had the what what the fuck? What's that? And uh kind of gathering ourselves and trying to make sense of it. And then from down at the far end of the corridor, we're not wow. It wasn't the wind, it wasn't an owl, it wasn't, you know, it was it was a man whistling. You're not gonna mistake that, and it was a single note and it held. It wasn't just Oh my god. That is crazy. And Steph and I said, Good Lord, is that the time?
I think we should uh we should check our hotel rooms the book of his own. So what? I don't know. I you know, I don't know. Very intense, right? Very real, very in a sense, very normal, very ordinary, you know, very tangible. There was nobody else in the building, and and I know the people there well enough to know that they're not setting you up for stuff. People will say, well, obviously they, you know, they they they set someone up to tell you that story, and then probably someone did go down the the grating, and then someone whistles at the end of the corridor.
Well, okay, but it's not it's not possible that they could have done that in that building that is deathly quiet, apart from hearing the coyotes howling occasionally, which all helps the atmosphere. And Steph's been there in daylight and heard moaning as the as she's walked past rooms with with a friend. I wasn't there at that time. Footsteps. We do the you know the flashlight thing? And you can turn it on and then twist it so that it just goes off. Yeah.
Stand it on the floor and then ask questions, and it will come on and go off. We've done that. Ste Steph is massively sceptical about that. I was to begin with, but it seems to work too often. And there's what there's one room at Trans Allegheny which is called Lily's Room, uh, which where was was where the ghost of a little girl is is supposed to be. There are a lot of toys in the room, and people have videoed balls moving around on their own, and lots of lots of women have reported feeling having the feeling of a small hand being slipped into theirs. Lily doesn't like men.
I've I've been in there with with other people a f a few times, sat in there, the flashlights set up, nothing. Which is unusual in itself. Almost everywhere else something reacts with the flashlight. Nothing. Nothing at all, nothing. And then I said, Would you like me to leave? And the flashlight came on immediately. And we must have been in there, you know, fifteen, twenty minutes asking questions. Nothing. Would you like me to leave? Oh yes.
Yeah. Get out of here.
Yeah. Plenty of strange stuff. And they talk about the spirits, and I, you know, I respect that, but the spec the the the skeptic in me says, Well, I don't think you know that, do you? That's a huge assumption. And I think you I think you know what you mean by spirits, and I don't think you do know what you mean by spirits. I think even if we accept the idea that they're spirits, that's in and of itself a massively complicated thing to try and make sense of and understand what may or may not be accurate.
I mean it's it's almost like you can cross-apply what Immanuel Kant said about God to the idea of spirit. There's no category for it, so it leaves all the more room for faith. Sure, I suppose. What faith? To uh Kant's way of thinking, everything was built upon categories. So if I see a man walking along it, you know, beside an ocean at midn at midnight, then you'd have to have a category for each one of those things in order to make sense of it.
But there is no category. Latin is a category and walking is a category, and water is a category.
Exactly. So but to his way of thinking that there wasn't a category for God. And so he said it's all the more room for faith. And I think you could easily cross-apply this to the same thing to spirits. We don't have a category.
If I uh if I slip the word speculation in in place of faith, I think that's perfectly fair. Yes, yes. I've also I mean I've taken I've taken photographs in Trans Allegheny, you know, photograph, photograph, photograph, photograph. And I know people talk about, you know, bugs in the air and dust in the lens and all of that. I'm not I'm I don't know how that operates with an iPhone in a conventional camera. Okay, maybe, but clear photograph, clear photograph, orbs and and rods all over the picture. Wow. And then clear again. That's amazing. And I I, you know, I I don't know. I can't explain.
I don't know. Part of the reason why I'm so fascinated by Skinwalker Range is it seems to me to be pulling so much of all of this together in a in a in an absolutely tangible way. So they are provoking UAPs, they're seeing U UAPs. The one that was hovering over the tree shortly w where the the the the uh the calf had been was dead, mutilated and dead under the tree, they had almost like a freeze frame of what looked like a flying saucer hovering over the tree. But it's only there for a very brief period of time. Nobody saw it come and nobody saw it go.
And although they've wandered away from it, there were early on there are paranormal elements involved, apparent poltergeist activity around. The bizarre thing with the dire wolf, yeah, that is so just so fucking weird. That skull is apparently a direwolf, and it was it wasn't just a skull that got dug up. I mean, it would it's there at the side of the creek. It's a it's a carcass. It c it can't be. It cannot be, but there it is. Whatever that is in the in the meser, I mean, I so don't want it to be an alien's face. Yeah.
I know that that's aga that's again, you know, that's me as an atheist saying, don't tell me that ghosts are the spirits of the dead, because then I have to accept that there's life after death, and I don't think I do believe in that. For the longest time I've run away from UFOs and little green men and you know, all of that. UAPs, fine, yes. These things are real in the sense that they are observed. Wouldn't question that for a moment. And only we know what they are. They are literally unidentified.
And I think then they may very well be in some ways that we don't understand, like the things that are provoked on Skinwalker Ranch, natural, naturally occurring. But they have these super, super slow motion cameras now that are picking up things that the naked eye will not see. You know, and we know we only see a narrow, very, very narrow wavelength of available light. Right.
There's an awful lot to be seen. And we probably all don't see in the same, you know, we don't all hear the same way. Some of us hear travel notes more clearly than bass notes, and vice versa. So I I don't think we experience colours in the same way. I don't think we, you know, people perceive things in different ways. I think it's interesting as well that a few times when they've been experimenting, they've had those those blacked-out helicopters arriving with low transponders aboard. So they're they are flying completely invisible.
It's clearly the military or the CIA or something, it clearly is that they're that something has triggered them to say, just go and check out what that damn film crew is up to run on Skinwalker Ranch, because they they may be getting too close to the things they're not supposed to see.
The one thing with Skinwalker Ranch, the one story that gets to me is where they I think they the people just recently buy the property from the original owners, and then the wolf casually stroll in, like, hey guys, and they shoot it, and then the dude gets his hunting rifle and he shoots it. He clearly sees that he's made impact, and the thing just sits there, and it's like, okay, see you later, guys. And it just walks off. It's like dumb and dumber when Jim Carrey's like, oh, big gulps, huh? Well, see you later.
And he just he just he just walks off and they track this thing for like a mile in the woods, and then it just disappears. No blood, nothing.
Well, that is the skinwalker, yeah. Yeah. And and again, it's you know, it's not it's not it's not just UFOs and and little green men, and it's not just Skinwalker Ranch. It's the whole of the Uinta basin that seems to be very active, and those stories, you know, go back to Native Americans and tribal folklore and tribal stories, and and it's from them that the s that that the story of of of the skinwalker takes its name. Yeah. It's so weird.
Remember the the when also the because there's the that like a stone circle on the top of the mesa, the the spiral up on the top of the mesa, and they brought in a group of Native Americans who sat at the base of the mesa. It may have been near where the the hieroglyphs are carved in the in the rock as well, and they were drumming and they were observing what was happening, and on the infrared camera, looking at them with the mesa behind them, the mesa starts to glow as they're drumming on the infrared camera, specifically around the area on top of the mesa where the spiral is.
And then when they when they stop the drumming, it cooled down again. There's so much going on there that they've narrowed it now very much down to drilling into the mesa and trying to establish what's going on with the triangle and the bubble and the blob and the anomaly and so forth and all of that, but but there's a a whole wider canvas of stuff going on there as well. Yeah, definitely. Fascinating stuff.
Yeah, I I always was I've always been fascinated by the concept of skinwalkers in general. I wanted to ask Doug. I know we've been going for quite a while, and we have, haven't we? Yeah, yeah. If at any point like you're like, dude, shut up. We we could always do a follow-up, like sure.
Yes. I probably need to wind it down at some point. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So I think I probably have three hours.
Yeah, I have a I think I have like maybe one or two more questions. So from a skeptical perspective, like, and based off of like, you know, what JJ and I shared and what you experienced at Trans Allegheny and what you've looked into with Skinwalker Ranch, etc. Are you skeptical in the sense that there are skepticals that are like, I don't believe this stuff is real? Or are you skeptical in the sense that where you're like, I don't align with your explanation.
That would depend on what your explanation is. I mean, the the validity of the stories that you've both told, uh-huh, I would not question for a single moment. An absolute skeptic might say, for example, your experience of experiencing your grandmother's sense, scent, is that you think about your grandmother, and in that s in that nanosecond that's almost like a a time slip, your your grandmother coming back into your thoughts for some reason triggers an olfactory memory and you smell your grandmother's scent.
But but that connection is so fast that it almost seems to you that you you smell the scent first, which makes you think of your grandmother. And then it's easy to explain that as, well, your grandmother visited you from beyond the grave, where it may simply be that you you have the memory of your, you hold the memory of your grandmother's scent. You don't smell it all the time.
We know that the unconscious mind logs so much detail of what we see and do uh at a minute level that we're not aware of, you know, markings on bricks when we're looking at walls, which if someone asked you about a few minutes later, you wouldn't be able to describe in any specific detail. But if I hypnotize you, you can remember extraordinary detail of of what you saw. So our minds are are very strange places, you know, in and of themselves.
I I no, I'm not a skep I'm not a uh from from the stories I've I've told you, I I have I have more what I I've experienced at Trans Allegheny and elsewhere. As I say, that that experience on the men's violent ward, absolutely real. I can't and if if any sceptic tries to say to me, well, it was an owl, I will say, no, absolutely it wasn't. I know what owls sound like, and that wasn't an owl. Well, it was the wind blowing through a window pane. No, I know what that sounds like. And it doesn't happen once, and it doesn't happen on a still night when there's barely a breath of wind.
It doesn't happen like that, and I know what the sound of a man whistling is, and that's what I heard. If someone says to me that was the spirit of a dead man whistling, that was that was the ghost of the man who was murdered, or the ghost of someone who was posted as the lookout who was who would whistle if a guard was coming or something, uh then then the skeptic in me would say, Maybe. I don't know that, and I don't think you know that. I think you are making assumptions w where I don't think there's any evidence to support making that logical leap to saying, you know, it's the spirits.
But I don't know, and I don't know that that you have any evidence to make that connection and assume that it's the dead. True. I don't know what it is, and that but it's clearly it's real. Nearly all, you know, all your experiences and we can multiply them. I'm sure if if anybody's still listening to us at this point, you know, I'm sure I'm sure everybody you know, everybody everybody has their own stories, and these are always the conversations that everybody loves to have. These are always, in some ways, I think the most meaningful and profound conversations that you fall into with people.
And everyone has these moments to share. I'll tell you quickly a uh a Ouija board story. This is this is a group a group of actors from when I was working in repertory theatre uh away from home. So on a night when when w we're not performing, we've all got together at somebody's digs, we've had a meal, you know, a couple of bottles of wine, and you know, someone will say, Let's do the Ouija board. Yeah, let's.
So we didn't have a Ouija board, but we we laid we laid out a table with, you know, pieces of paper with we wrote letters on them, yes and no, and hello and goodbye and all of that, and and the upturned wine glass. And we sat somebody out from the circle to make notes of what was going on. And for a long time, just gibberish, nothing or gibberish. And we'd almost were prepared to give up on this, and we said, well, let's let's let's give it one more chance. Let's go round and ask, do you want to talk to Doug? Do you want to talk to Bob? Do you want to talk to Sue, whoever?
I can't remember names now apart from the the one. And we did that, and no, nothing. It was a touring theatre company and touring dance company, and there was one guy, a Welsh guy, a little bit hyper, I liked him a lot, but he was he he was very much a kind of very intense kind of guy, and we came around the circle. Do you want to talk to him? Yes, okay.
So away we went, and this developed into a long conversation, complete with Indian guide initially, before we started talking to his dead relatives, including very strongly his father, to whom he was very close and had died, so this is all getting a bit kind of you know this wine glass is charging around the table. I mean we're almost at the point where where we can only have one finger on it, and there was a little little kind of a bit of wood or something that was sticking up so that the wine glass would hit it and kind of jump over it. It was moving around with so much force.
And we started talking to to his to his grandmother. The only problem was that as far as he was aware, his grandmother was alive, but his grandmother is telling him uh she lived on her own in South Wales on a farm. She'd gone out to get some firewood, so like a little room with a wood in it. She'd slipped on a log and she'd fallen, and she'd hit her head and she'd died. Nobody knew she was there, and rainwater was dripping on her, she said.
It was very vivid, very powerful, and nobody knew that she was there, and she wanted wanted him to know this, and obviously you know, we wound it down, and he was obviously quite shaken. And you can follow it up with that that he said uh the following day when he was he was i in bed when he got back to his digs thinking about it, a mirror fell off the wall, and he was in a dilemma because he didn't he didn't want to call his grandmother, he didn't want to call his mother to say, you know, go and check on Granny because I think she might be dead.
So he sort of waited until his mother called him. You know, he he was able to to casually say, uh, have you seen grandma lately? Yeah, yeah, I saw her saw her a few days ago. Is she all right? Yes, she's fine. So the experience we had with with our homemade Ouija board was was intense. Intense. But I think we were having an intense conversation with his unconscious mind, not the spirits of the dead.
And somehow this got tangled up in maybe he had maybe he just worried about his grandmother living on her own and that something would happen to her and nobody would know and nobody would be able to help her. But it as I say, it was very vivid and very powerful, and he was quite shaken up by it. But were we talking to the spirit of his dead grandmother? No, we were not. Maybe in the follow-up to the story that I don't know. But you know, if you were writing the movie, maybe five years later she goes out to get some firewood and she slipped.
When the actually the weird thing is is that when the board game was first released, it had nothing to do with talking to spirits. It was about talking to your higher personalities. Right. Right. Okay, yes.
You always end up talking to Julius Caesar or Napoleon anyway, don't you?
Man, if I could use that okay. Don't tell me.
We did when we but you know, people who use the Ouija board, again, they who use it seriously, they use it in that kind of way.
Yeah.
As a conversation with themselves. They'll do it every day and not on a, you know, is there anybody there kind of kind of a basis. You know, it's it more as a kind of meditative tool, I guess.
Or or you'll open up a portal and uh Penhead will come out.
So we see Skinwalker Ranch has made me accept the possibility of portals. And again, you know, always for me when people talked about portals, I switched off because I just think, oh, here they go with the damn portals, but maybe, just maybe.
Yeah. But uh Doug, I want to thank you for your time. We nearly three hours, sir. I did not expect this conversation to go that long. I am very thankful for your time.
Absolutely. You're very well. It's been a pleasure. I we could go on for another three hours if we had the energy, but yeah, definitely vocal calls.
If you're up for it, I would love to have you on for a following. Sure.
It's you know, it's it's a bottomless topic and it's uh it's a topic of endless fascination and sure, you know.
Yeah, we didn't we didn't get to cover uh aliens and bigfoot and all that other fun stuff, so very much a believer in Bigfoot. Yeah, as am I. So I think that'd be I'm not so sure about. Oh, we could go into that at another time. That'd be such bad pilots.
They can flip they can fly around the fucking universe, but then they're fresh all over the place. Mastered this by now.
Right? But before we uh let you go for the evening, why don't you plug upcoming cons appearances or projects you might have coming down the pipeline that you can share?
Sure. I'm gonna be at a store called Screamers, uh, which is in Mount Clemens, spelt like uh Mark Twain's real name, C-L-E-M-E-N-S, Mount Clemens. That's in Michigan, I think, I think near Detroit. That'll be me and Andy Robinson. Of course, played Larry and uh and then Frank in Larry's skin in the in Hellraiser and even more memorably Dirty Harry. So we'll both be there. That is a week where are we? What day is it? Thursday? Yes.
A week on Saturday, the the 20th of June. We will both be there just for one day. In July, I'm at Mad Monster Party in Phoenix, Arizona. That is the 11th, uh 10th through the 12th of July. The spirits have just pushed it after. It's gone to the place that the coaster went to. There it is. Monster Mania in the middle of August. That's uh the 14th to the 16th. That's Cherry Hill, New Jersey, which is kind of to the south southeast of Philadelphia, but it is in just in New Jersey. And then in October, I'll be at Son of Monster Palooza in Burbank. That's the 9th to the 11th of October.
Heard him, folks, go check 'em out. I like I said on the Footy podcast.
Don't wear your Liverpool shirt or look look where it leads you.
Yeah. He has one of the best damn autographs uh out of all the celebrities that I have met, had the pleasure of meeting. So if you have some pinhead memorabilia, go out there, get it signed. He's a great guy as long as you don't wear a Manchester United top when you go meet him. But all right, folks, I hope you enjoyed today's episode. And again, it was a pleasure having you on for this long Doug. I appreciate your time. Pleasure to meet you, Mo. Pleasure to meet you, JJ.
Great to talk to you again.
All right, folks. Hope you enjoyed today's special episode. And hopefully we can have him back on sometime in the future. Thank you all. Have a good one. Bye-bye, everyone.
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